This has all been studied extensively, and it was found that people are more alert in the mornings, but not so in the evenings (tired/stressed etc). It was therefore estimated that driving home in daylight and going to work in the dark would reduce accidents, not increase them.

As for farmers, I think they should move to accommodate everyone else, not the other way around.

So you're saying that because it's more convenient for people to drive home in, we should ignore international business desires (who give people jobs to drive home from) and the safety of an ailing industry?
It stays brighter in the summer, it gets darker in the winter, and it's done this for... oh simply as long as I can remember, certainly. It appears to be some sort of natural occurrence.

That's exactly what I'm saying. A person's health > any business/business concerns.

Is driving home in the dark affecting the nations health dreadfully? Are we actually that lame?
Because I'm reading that the leading cause of road accidents is fatigue. And the leading time for fatigue related accidents is the very early hours of the morning (when sane people should probably be tucked up at home) and... in the middle of the afternoon. The 2pm slump.

Fail.

I am so sick of this tired old turd resurfacing every decade.

We have Greenwich Mean Time set at the time it is because of the geographic location of the Royal Observatory in fekking Greenwich. It's nothing to do with colonialism, pomposity or Euroscepticism - GMT is what it is because of Physics. Moving the clocks cannot change the fact that in winter in most of Britain, the working (& commuting) day is 9-10 hours long whilst the actual day is only 7½-8 hours long.

Moreover, we need to keep reasonable pace with GMT because of our circadian rhythms and hormonal cycles. Mess about too much with when you wake up and go to sleep and say hello to Messrs. Depression and Suicide. Biologically speaking, this is utter stupidity.

So how about we stop pretending that moving the clocks will change anything, stop dicking about and dreaming up ever more intricate ways of wasting money?

Leave the bloody clocks alone

The evidence seems to disagree with you. Apparently, waking up in the dark and going home in the dark is bad for you. Moving one so that you get more sunshine at the other end is apparently a much better way to be carrying on.

Well what better reason to mandate that flexible working is enforceable?

The only reason anybody ever even thinks about this is that it would allow the UK Financial sector to harmonise with its European brethren.

Frankly that's a crap reason.


Yes - because when it gets dark you're supposed to be in bed.

And no, only some of the evidence seems to disagree with me. As Prof says, the leading times for fatigue-related accidents are early morning and mid-afternoon.

What we actually need to do is shorten working hours in winter


How?

How does one set a cow's udders to a different time zone? A ewe's womb? How does one attach a muck spreader to a three-point hitch in the dark? How will the already colossal suicide rate among farmers be affected by changing their working hours? What about all the dependent industries? Do they change their hours to stay with their customers (farmers)?

Farmers have to work during the daylight hours because, as my farming ex-colleague says, "you work when the work is". Farmers can't work flexible hours - it's impossible. They have no choice in the matter.

How will this affect the transport, building and mercantile sectors? How does one lay bricks in the dark?

========

Put simply, a far better way would be have people start work earlier just like they do in Germany. Instead of working 9-5, do like the Germans and work 8-4.

Your aim would be achieved (more daylight in evenings), working parents get to see more of their children and nobody has to spend millions altering software and buying suddenly-obsoleted equipment.

Exactly.

Leave the clocks alone so that they make sense and force companies to let people start work earlier.

FFS, why do the government look at every detail of what's irrelevant, build it up into an "issue" and then try and solve it?

People get tired. Accidents happen. It's not nice, but you can't stop them happening by applying blanket solutions.

Launching government initiatives and legislating for these tiny minority situations is a ridiculous waste of time and money that will cause far more cost and inconvenience than it could ever hope to "solve."

This.

All forms of "daylight saving" are stupid. Just take the time that the sun is, on average, at its highest in the country where you live and call that noon. That way the morning (am) is actually ante meridiem and the afternoon (pm) post meridiem. If for health/safety/economic/whatever reasons people want to get up several hours before dawn then by all means let them, but that is absolutely no reason to keep messing around with the clocks.

Since clocks, time zones and standard working patterns are all human inventions, it makes perfect sense to alter them all as necessary to maximise the benefits to human health and/or productivity.

Flexible working is a nice idea, but it will never happen - the cost to companies is just too great, not to mention it being completely impractical. Moving the working hours of the entire workforce would have a much smaller impact however.

No. Solar noon is a trivially observable physical phenomenon. The human constructs of the 8 to 5, 9 to 6 or whatever working hours are the arbitrary human constructs and are the things that should be adjusted if it is deemed desirable for whatever reason.

Sure, but "times", "time zones" and all other such phenomena, including working patterns, have all been set by human beings. Changing time zone isn't going to affect the Sun nor the rotation of the Earth, but by moving working patterns it is possible to ensure people enjoy more daylight.