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IT graduates should "work for free" to gain experience 
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I did a year out (3rd year) at uni on a 'sandwich' course. Companies advertised jobs in the uni and you applied for what you wanted as you would a normal job. I landed a job at Jaguar*, Browns Lane and was paid a monthly salary (£15k, although this was one of the highest paid jobs avalable to be fair). It gave me some good experience and I think more people could benefit from this sort of thing.


*Amazing job. I joined with the graduates so did the same two week induction camping out, helping the community (built a garden at a dementia home and managed to get in the local paper and the Jaguar magazine which I still have), touring the factories, etc. When it was over I started work at the HQ which meant I had ready access to the hertiage museum and restoration garage, got emails Mondays after a race from the F1 team, saw XJ220s being serviced, got to go in the Austin Powers Shaguar as it stopped off for a brief photoshoot, saw the bond villan car being built (the one from the film with all the ice?), got taken around MIRA in an XJR by a test driver flat out, etc etc. Best. Job. Ever.

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Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:49 am
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veato wrote:
I did a year out (3rd year) at uni on a 'sandwich' course. Companies advertised jobs in the uni and you applied for what you wanted as you would a normal job. I landed a job at Jaguar*, Browns Lane and was paid a monthly salary (£15k, although this was one of the highest paid jobs avalable to be fair). It gave me some good experience and I think more people could benefit from this sort of thing.


*Amazing job. I joined with the graduates so did the same two week induction camping out, helping the community (built a garden at a dementia home and managed to get in the local paper and the Jaguar magazine which I still have), touring the factories, etc. When it was over I started work at the HQ which meant I had ready access to the hertiage museum and restoration garage, got emails Mondays after a race from the F1 team, saw XJ220s being serviced, got to go in the Austin Powers Shaguar as it stopped off for a brief photoshoot, saw the bond villan car being built (the one from the film with all the ice?), got taken around MIRA in an XJR by a test driver flat out, etc etc. Best. Job. Ever.

And you got paid!!!!!

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Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:47 am
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I know! I look back now and see how fortunate I was. It was amazing. The IT manager asked me to go back after my final year but as a contractor (they had no staff positions avaiable) but I'd moved back home by then.

Was very sad when Browns Lane was shut down.

I'm remembering now they had an XKSS in the heratige museum* (ultra rare) and I fell in love with it. I used to talk about it with the old guy who worked there and he told me a very rich man offered them a blank cheque (within reason I'm sure!) for it and they turned it down flat. He also showed me pre-war poster advertising another 'SS' Jag model that read "THE SS IS COMING". Brilliant.

*and a bright pink XJ :shock:
*XK 180 concept
*XJ220 Prototype with the big engine
*Jag XJ estate long before the X-type was ever dreamt up
*XK120
*Silk Cut XJRs

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Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:58 am
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I *think* those Jags are still at the Jaguar factory oop north. I'm not sure. My Dad got to visit with a friend who used to build and race D-Types. I do remember there being some interesting cars in the photos he came back with.

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Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:06 am
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They should use the approach we use - employ them for six months on a temporary contract and see how well they do. If they're no good, simply terminate the contract and that's the end of it. Otherwise, take them on permanently.

At least that way you don't end up with some useless mong you who can't get rid of.

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Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:24 pm
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dogbert10 wrote:
They should use the approach we use - employ them for six months on a temporary contract and see how well they do. If they're no good, simply terminate the contract and that's the end of it. Otherwise, take them on permanently.

At least that way you don't end up with some useless mong you who can't get rid of.

Even if you take them on a permanent basis you can still get rid of people within two years without reason. If they are crap then the employer can still use that as a defence.

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Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:53 pm
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veato wrote:
saw the bond villan car being built (the one from the film with all the ice?)


Die Another Day (Godawful Brosnan film, though not his fault)?

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Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:41 pm
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Ahh thats the one

Image

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Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:55 pm
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veato wrote:
Ahh thats the one

Image

That is the car that would have got people through the snow this winter. Snow tracks for drifts and rockets to get rid of blockages, be it drifts or cars. 8-)

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Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:00 am
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Amnesia10 wrote:
I would like to see unpaid internships banned as a form of slavery, even if chosen.

fixed

I did an internship in my 3rd year (full time doing proper work, reduced salary due to no degree/experience but most of the perks) at uni and got paid for it, I don't know anyone that did an internship on a computing degree for free as a matter of fact

I know most people on my course I graduated with are either unemployed or doing unrelated IT jobs, a couple are in the games industry based on experience but many have given up.

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Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:39 am
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I wrote:
Here in Germany, it is pretty much standard practice, when applying for a job, whether school leaver or experienced worker, that you work a day to a week for free, to see if you are suitable.

That means that you aren't reduced just to your CV, you actually get a chance to prove that you will fit in with the team and can do the work - something that graduates often don't get the chance to do.

The employer can take a risk and try out 3 or 4 people for a role. It isn't cheap for the company to do that (setting up accounts, having somebody mentor the person and monitor their progress), but it is cheaper than employing the wrong person...

A lot of companies will also accept students, graduates or people looking to change job for a "Praktikum" or internship for a couple of weeks or a couple of months, to see if they are the right material or to let them gain experience.

It increases your chances of getting a job, as long as you put the effort in.

It is also still common to take on apprentices for IT jobs, especially programming and support, instead of spending time at Uni, they get on-the-job training, with a couple of days a week at college - a bit like a sandwich course.

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Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:53 am
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finlay666 wrote:
Amnesia10 wrote:
I would like to see unpaid internships banned as a form of slavery, even if chosen.

fixed

I did an internship in my 3rd year (full time doing proper work, reduced salary due to no degree/experience but most of the perks) at uni and got paid for it, I don't know anyone that did an internship on a computing degree for free as a matter of fact

I know most people on my course I graduated with are either unemployed or doing unrelated IT jobs, a couple are in the games industry based on experience but many have given up.

Yes that is an acceptable escape clause. Expecting people to work for free is appalling and does not help encourage staff loyalty.

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Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:34 pm
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big_D wrote:
I wrote:
Here in Germany, it is pretty much standard practice, when applying for a job, whether school leaver or experienced worker, that you work a day to a week for free, to see if you are suitable.

That means that you aren't reduced just to your CV, you actually get a chance to prove that you will fit in with the team and can do the work - something that graduates often don't get the chance to do.

The employer can take a risk and try out 3 or 4 people for a role. It isn't cheap for the company to do that (setting up accounts, having somebody mentor the person and monitor their progress), but it is cheaper than employing the wrong person...

A lot of companies will also accept students, graduates or people looking to change job for a "Praktikum" or internship for a couple of weeks or a couple of months, to see if they are the right material or to let them gain experience.

It increases your chances of getting a job, as long as you put the effort in.

It is also still common to take on apprentices for IT jobs, especially programming and support, instead of spending time at Uni, they get on-the-job training, with a couple of days a week at college - a bit like a sandwich course.

Yes that is a lot more sensible. Even if you work for free and are unemployed you are no worse off, and it is only a week. If a company cannot see any talent in that time they are either not paying attention or the person has no talent. On the job training is also a better way of doing training. It is more specific to the company and can benefit the company more. Though apprenticeships are excellent many companies have such short time scales that they use them as cheap labour without training them properly.

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Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:38 pm
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You want a job then you put yourself ahead of the competition. Many other industries have had applicants work on a trial basis for years, the IT sector is just catching up. Longer terms may be a bit different, but at the end of the day if you make yourself indispensable then you'll get a job and earn what you're worth.

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Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:46 pm
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