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How the global warming industry is based on one MASSIVE lie 
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ethelredalready wrote:
ProfessorF wrote:
Linux_User wrote:
We have this wonderful stuff called technology that normally takes care of the "natural order" pretty well. ;)


And chimps use tools.
The internet and the mobile phone and the MRI scanner doesn't mean we're not all a part of the natural order.


Sorry Prof, but that REALLY IS the point. We exist in nature, but our technology allows us to occupy environmental niches that would be unsustainable without it. Sadly the same technology allows us to destroy the planet through greed and stupidity. "Nature" will strike back (wheteher as a consequence of Man, or simply by chance) and we'll nedd to concentrate on different skills to those of greed and exploitation to survive


Anyone got Ray Mears on speed dial? :lol:

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Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:33 pm
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ethelredalready wrote:
Sorry Prof, but that REALLY IS the point. We exist in nature, but our technology allows us to occupy environmental niches that would be unsustainable without it. Sadly the same technology allows us to destroy the planet through greed and stupidity. "Nature" will strike back (wheteher as a consequence of Man, or simply by chance) and we'll nedd to concentrate on different skills to those of greed and exploitation to survive


Technology is merely an extension of ourselves though, hence it is a part of the "natural order", much like ant nests, beaver dams and so forth. Or is humanity un-natural, somehow gloriously divorced from nature is some fundamental way? We're straying dangerously into creationist thought here...
Humans exist from the equator to well inside the polar regions without needing to rely on technology.
I'm reminded of a fourth year conversation with a vegetarian who said hunting was un-natural because we used rifles, and was thus a good reason to become vegetarian. :roll:

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Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:50 pm
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ethelredalready wrote:
We exist in nature, but our technology allows us to occupy environmental niches that would be unsustainable without it. Sadly the same technology allows us to destroy the planet through greed and stupidity. "Nature" will strike back (whether as a consequence of Man, or simply by chance) and we'll need to concentrate on different skills to those of greed and exploitation to survive

While I agree with your sentiment, I find your logic confused.

Nature thrives on exploitation and greed. I think the "selfish gene" is generally accepted. Sadly the meek do not generally survive; much less inherit the Earth.

Animals do shape the environment around them; elephants or goats can turn forest into savanna.

Animals are not kind. Tigers and eagles prey on babies and the lame. Chimps have wars and rip each others balls off.

However, if you look at a world without humans then you see a certain balance. No other species has ever dominated the entire planet the way we do. We're like a plague of locusts, but we've been decimating the entire planet for decades rather than a mere subcontinent for one season.

The problem isn't greed or technology; it's a combination of the two combined with our sheer numbers.

The answer is not a return to a preindustrial life style, unless you want to see child mortality rise to 80% and a life of sickness and toil become the norm. Many years ago, life was savage. It still is in many places, and I for one do not want my children to live like that.

I believe the answer lies in embracing technology while paying close attention to our place in the world. It's the only way we can put an end to greed and the savage exploitation of both the planet and each other. We have the knowledge to create a civilisation of billions of contented people and a planet rich with biodiversity.

At the moment, we are still more savage than civilised. We're unevolved compared to our true potential. We use our knowledge in the same way we always have - for immediate gain with little thought for the long term. That's our heritage from our animal past, and it needs to stop lest we return to the beasts we once were.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of people have no vision beyond their own immediate gratification. Although I do believe mankind has the potential to become something better, the majority of people are condemning us to a future of natural savagery.

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Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:02 pm
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