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ProfessorF
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:56 pm Posts: 12030
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And it's thinking like that which has buggered the nation up since the 70s, because then when the Tories inevitably bugger it up, people think 'Labour can't do any worse than The Tories' and so the cycle repeats. Especially as these days, we don't have an opposition party, just varying bland degrees of centre right politics. Choosing something because 'it can't be worse' isn't the same as 'it's a better choice', and it's a national shame. Remember when Labour took power? It felt like the storming of the Bastille. And now what's happened? When the Tories come back, it'll feel like another liberating force, but give it a decade and we'll be knee deep in shonky dealings and economic crisis. Fundamentally, there is no difference; they're all politicians. If we want a proper change in the nations downward spiral, it's time we stopped swinging from one to the other and started thinking differently about our options. The tragedy is, I can think of nobody within 50 miles of West Minster that I'd put in the PM's seat.
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Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:31 am |
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Linux_User
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 3:29 pm Posts: 7173
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 |  |  |  | ProfessorF wrote: And it's thinking like that which has buggered the nation up since the 70s, because then when the Tories inevitably bugger it up, people think 'Labour can't do any worse than The Tories' and so the cycle repeats. Especially as these days, we don't have an opposition party, just varying bland degrees of centre right politics. Choosing something because 'it can't be worse' isn't the same as 'it's a better choice', and it's a national shame. Remember when Labour took power? It felt like the storming of the Bastille. And now what's happened? When the Tories come back, it'll feel like another liberating force, but give it a decade and we'll be knee deep in shonky dealings and economic crisis. Fundamentally, there is no difference; they're all politicians. If we want a proper change in the nations downward spiral, it's time we stopped swinging from one to the other and started thinking differently about our options. The tragedy is, I can think of nobody within 50 miles of West Minster that I'd put in the PM's seat. |  |  |  |  |
The difference is, I'd never vote Labour!  I vote Lib Dem anyway, so the point is moot, though I'd consider voting Tory if the policies were right. They always say "The Opposition don't win elections, the government loses them".
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Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:42 am |
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JJW009
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:58 pm Posts: 8767 Location: behind the sofa
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Me too, and my vote has never counted for squat due to lack of PR. Our system is quite frankly fascicle, but given that nice well-meaning people are usually trampled by self-serving hacks I'm really not sure what to suggest to improve things.
_________________jonbwfc's law: "In any forum thread someone will, no matter what the subject, mention Firefly." When you're feeling too silly for x404, youRwired.net
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Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:47 am |
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jonlumb
Spends far too much time on here
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:44 pm Posts: 4141 Location: Exeter
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To be fair, we do at least have a relatively serious contender of a third party in the Lib Dems. Imagine what it's like in the USA where it's either Democrat or Republican, and the huge yawning gulf between them.
_________________ "The woman is a riddle inside a mystery wrapped in an enigma I've had sex with."
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Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:07 am |
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DoubleTouch
Has a life
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:42 pm Posts: 99
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The day I have to have an ID card is the day I leave this crumbling relic of a country.
_________________ God knows who they begin to take themselves for - for gods, at the least
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Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:59 am |
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PaulKey
Occasionally has a life
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:18 am Posts: 385
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To get back to the original point....
I think this is just a bit of Tory sabre rattling. A contract is a legal and binding agreement. Any tearing up of these contracts by an incoming Tory government would almost certainly result in court cases.
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Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:12 am |
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Geiseric
Doesn't have much of a life
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:35 pm Posts: 1657 Location: Ipswich
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Maybe we can swing it so no one party has outright majority resulting in a coalition government? That would make a change...... not sure it would work but I'll try anything once.
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Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:48 pm |
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JJW009
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:58 pm Posts: 8767 Location: behind the sofa
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It's interesting. Perhaps there should be a law stating that all contracts are subject to both parties remaining in control. I'm pretty sure any contract made with a company that is bust become worthless, and lets face it - Labour are going to get busted. Making contracts just before you run away and hide is very much like fraud. Signing a cheque, and then vanishing...
_________________jonbwfc's law: "In any forum thread someone will, no matter what the subject, mention Firefly." When you're feeling too silly for x404, youRwired.net
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Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:13 pm |
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Linux_User
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 3:29 pm Posts: 7173
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There'll be get-out clauses, but no doubt Labour will make the penalty costs sky-high. They intend to make it as difficult for the Tories as possible, rather than do the decent thing and what's best for the public finances.
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Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:18 pm |
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gavomatic57
Doesn't have much of a life
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:30 pm Posts: 1757 Location: Cardiff, Wales
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Lets not forget that the Tories were not immune to the expenses scandal....just as many Tories were guilt-tripped into standing down as Labour, Smarmy Cameron also had to hand back public money. And wasn't it the tories who waged war on Iraq the first time? 15% interest rates, widespread unemployment etc etc. ID cards are nothing new in the EU, but if a previous government has spent the money working on introducing them here, it would be irresponsible to throw it all away. ID cards have their benefits I'm sure. Lets try them and see if it works for us.
_________________ G.
Last edited by gavomatic57 on Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:55 am |
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bobbdobbs
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:10 pm Posts: 5490 Location: just behind you!
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Apart from your reply having not much to do with the the quote Its a good thing both Tory and Labour Mps are being forced to stand down, might help newer ones to at least have minimal corruption not duck island/clean my moat style. As for the Tories waging war, at least they had some moral justifiaction and a proper UN mandate to do it. It wasnt based on lies, lies and more lies. Widespread unemployment was inevitable in the early eighties as our manufacturing base was hopelessly incompetant and ineffective. though I do agree Cameron is smarmy, but if its a choice between smarmy Cameron or the pension swindler, take the credit but duck the blame, bankrupt the country, betray the armed forces Brown. I know where my vote goes. Though mr Clegg does seem a nice chappy. 
_________________Finally joined Flickr
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Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:13 am |
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Linux_User
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 3:29 pm Posts: 7173
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The first Iraq war was justified and actually backed by the UN, unlike the current one, so I'm not sure where you're going with that. We needed high interest rates to keep inflation under control - and it paid off, we've consistently had some of the lowest interest rates for over a decade now - that's not thanks to Gordon Brown, but rather owing to global economic pressures and the solid base for recovery built by Thatcher and Major. The Tories transformed Britain from the "sick man in Europe" to being a leading, dynamic economic power. They're extremely anti-British. I couldn't give a toss what they do on the continent with them, we don't want them over here, and frankly they won't do anything the government claims they will. It's a waste of public money, it's in unwanted intrusion into my freedom and most importantly it's one of those things that it will be extremely difficult, if not impossible to get rid of (the "threat" never goes away). Ask the people of Madrid if ID Cards stop terrorism, or ask the people of Naples if they actually do anything to stop organised crime...etc etc
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Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:12 am |
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gavomatic57
Doesn't have much of a life
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:30 pm Posts: 1757 Location: Cardiff, Wales
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For about a month, until the vast majority fell behind on their mortgages and lost their homes....oh, and then there was the Poll Tax...
_________________ G.
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Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:12 am |
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ProfessorF
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:56 pm Posts: 12030
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And laying the groundwork for what Labour have done. Thatcher's greatest legacy is arguably Tony Blair, perversely.
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Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:16 am |
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Linux_User
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 3:29 pm Posts: 7173
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The "poll tax" is actually extremely fair. At the moment we have the ridiculous situation of poor old dears living in large houses paying a huge amount of council tax (or going to prison because they can't pay it), and lots of people in a small house paying comparatively little. The Community Charge would have rectified that situation.
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Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:20 am |
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