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Apple 'wins' legal case against Samsung
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jonbwfc
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:26 pm Posts: 17040
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Really? Why should these particular two 'play nice''? What do any of you think any other multinational company would do so under the same circumstances?
There's optimism, and then there's wilful naivety. This is the system we have created, all of us. Apple and Samsung are symptoms of it, not agents. We have created a system where large corporations are required to gain the most profit by any and all means necessary and no other consideration is a factor at all. Until we change that fundamental issue, there's absolutely no possibility of Apple, Samsung, Ford, BP, Sony, Microsoft or anyone else 'playing nice'.
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Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:38 am |
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big_D
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:25 pm Posts: 10691 Location: Bramsche
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If they talked to each other and actually worked on a compromise, as opposed to trying to annihilate each other (Jobs'/Apple's famous "going thermo nuclear on Android"), they wouldn't waste so much money on lawyers and their products would be more reasonably priced.
As it is, the squabbling between the two sides is bad for the industry, it is bad for the consumer, it is bad for Samsung and Apple, the only people benefiting from this stupidity are the lawyers.
_________________ "Do you know what this is? Hmm? No, I can see you do not. You have that vacant look in your eyes, which says hold my head to your ear, you will hear the sea!" - Londo Molari
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Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:35 am |
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jonbwfc
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Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:26 pm Posts: 17040
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I think your scales are way off. The cost of the lawsuit is a drop in the ocean of the turnover of a company the size of Apple or Samsung. And in any case, Apple won $1 billion in damages. That's way more than it will have cost them to bring the suit. If anything, winning the legal case would allow Apple to reduce its prices while still maintaining profits. They won't of course, because they don't have to. Apple and Samsung, whatever the public rhetoric, fought the case for one reason and one reason only - whoever won it stood to make a profit from doing so. That's the bottom line. If you think Steve Jobs actually believed every single thing he said that was published then you haven't been paying attention because the evidence suggests he would quite often flat out lie if he thought it would get him what he wanted. And you know what? So does every other CEO of every other multinational on earth.Apple are not special. Apple are not different. Never have been. They just told us they were because they thought we would buy more of their stuff if we believed it. Samsung are not special. Samsung are not different. Never have been. They will also tell us whatever they think will make us buy more of their stuff. Unless or until we become a less consumerist society, we all endorse this behaviour. And anyone who thinks different from that is a fool. Well I wouldn't disagree with the last statement in general, or at least lawyers are the only people who always benefit. However let's look at it objectively - billion of items of electronics we're sold while the trial was ongoing. The percentage of people buying those items who even knew the trial was happening was a small percentage, and the people who cared about the result was a small percentage of those. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter in the least.
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Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:16 am |
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cloaked_wolf
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Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:46 pm Posts: 10022
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I've always thought that Jobs was more of cnut than Gates for some reason.
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Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:08 am |
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belchingmatt
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Fri May 15, 2009 3:16 am Posts: 6146 Location: Middle Earth
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My first thought was charity. You hear about the Gate's foundation but I've never heard anything about Job's donations to the needy. Rather than just claiming he didn't I thought I would have a quick look into the matter, and the first article I found will follow soon. Now I'm quite ambivalent about many things, and generally just want a little information, rather than doing a full on investigation. But the article I found was just astonishing in it's assumptions.  |  |  |  | Lara Hoffmans, Forbes Contributor wrote: Steve Jobs while he lived was occasionally criticized for not being more charitable—like his compatriot and competitor Bill Gates or Warren Buffett. Hogwash. If you wanted to, you couldn’t account for all the societal good Steve Jobs has done.
Start with his company. Folks who believe economies are a fixed pie must implode as they consider how Steve Jobs (with pal “Woz”) started with an idea and an empty garage and built a firm worth $350 billion. That’s $350 billion in shareholder value that didn’t exist 35 years ago. Poof! Now, tally up his employees’ salaries and benefits. Every one of them, ever—at Apple, NeXT and Pixar. That’s a lot of wealth created out of effectively thin air. Then think about how his employees invested, spent and saved that money. And sure, gave to charities of their choosing.
Oh, but let’s not forget the game-changing wave of innovation Steve was responsible for. He was on the forefront of the PC revolution. You may never own an Apple product in your life or want to own their stock, but Microsoft literally would not be what it is today if not for a sometimes tempestuous rivalry between Steve and Bill Gates. Nor would any other computer firm, software firm, component firm, etc. That competition is what has led computers but also a huge range of personal electronics (not just Apple’s) to be faster, smaller, sometimes bigger (think computer monitors, TVs), exponentially more powerful and all around awesome-saucier.
You can’t possibly wrap your brain around how the world has been vastly improved by those two tinkering away in their separate garages. And the industries and individual firms (and therefore the shareholder value, the jobs, etc.) that simply could not exist today the way they do. My guess is those charities Jobs is criticized for not giving more heavily to can’t, today, create a balance sheet, solicit funds, dig a well or build a schoolhouse without using some product that was created by, inspired by or competed directly against Steve Jobs.
Pixar. If you don’t have kids or have a heart of stone, maybe you don’t appreciate the joy unleashed on the world by Woody, Jessie, Buzz, Sulley, Mike, Nemo, Wall-e, Doug the talking dog, Jack-Jack. I know I’m filled with joy (as are nearby diners) when my three-year-old spends a quiet 90 minutes watching a Pixar movie on my (heavily armored) iPhone in a fine dining establishment.
Oh, and Pixar’s (now Disney’s) shareholder value. And their employees. And their wealth multiplied as they spend, save, invest. And all the merchandising. And the stores that sell the merchandising. And their employees. And apps! A whole cottage industry just around apps! Didn’t exist before—and now exists for products beyond Apple. And those firms and their employees and and and.
While many today spend an inordinate amount of time pontificating their political views or charitable cause of choice, Jobs was mostly interested in creating products that enrich lives and, yes, creating his namesake—jobs. Would that other entrepreneurial-minded folks could be so charitable. Thanks, Steve.
This constitutes the views, opinions and commentary of the author as of October 2011 and should not be regarded as personal investment advice. No assurances are made the author will continue to hold these views, which may change at any time without notice. No assurances are made regarding the accuracy of any forecast made. Past performance is no guarantee of future results. Investing in stock markets involves the risk of loss. |  |  |  |  |
Societal Good? Well I bet even Adolf Hitler paid taxes at some point in his life, and possibly generated business. And of course no mention of working conditions in the far East.
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If one is diving so close to the limits that +/- 1% will make a difference then the error has already been made.
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Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:32 am |
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timark_uk
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Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:11 pm Posts: 12143 Location: Belfast
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How much did Bill Gates get paid at Microsoft? Steve Jobs got paid $1 a year at Apple (okay, so there were stock options and stuff, but I bet Bill Gates had those too at Microsoft). Mark
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Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:40 am |
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paulzolo
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Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:27 pm Posts: 12251
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We must not forget that pretty much every piece of electronics is am in the far East. Sony, Dell, Ho etc. all use Foxconn to build their hardware. You can't pin that on just one company.
If you are that concerned about the working conditions in that part of the world, then you should not be owning or using anything with a "Made in China/Korea/etc (delete where applicable)" sticker on it.
And, no. I have no idea about Steve Jobs' charity donations, or lack of. He may have kept quiet about them (not everyone shouts from the rooftops about their charitable involvements). He may have done nothing. It would be helpful at this point if someone who knows can post a few links to genuine proof (it not hearsay or speculation) to help clear up any confusion. Thanks.
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Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:43 am |
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timark_uk
Moderator
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:11 pm Posts: 12143 Location: Belfast
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It would appear that Steve Jobs wasn't big on the idea of giving his money away, but that changed almost immediately with the taking over of Tim Cook. Mark
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Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:48 am |
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ProfessorF
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Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:56 pm Posts: 12030
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Thing is, if Jobs wanted to donate anonymously, the that's what he did. And we'll never know about it. I give major kudos to what Gates has done with his cash, but the thing is to separate the creator from the entity that is the company. For all the good Gates has done, you've got Steve Ballmer.
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Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:52 am |
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belchingmatt
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Fri May 15, 2009 3:16 am Posts: 6146 Location: Middle Earth
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I'm making no assumptions or comparisons to Jobs, or any other company. Just pointing out that one reporter assumes that Steve Jobs must have done good just because he ran a profitable business, without considering any other possibilities, and then added a couple off the top of my head as an example.
_________________ Dive like a fish, drink like a fish!
><(((º>`•.¸¸.•´¯`•.¸><(((º> •.¸¸.•´¯`•.¸><(((º>`•.¸¸.•´¯`•.¸><(((º>
If one is diving so close to the limits that +/- 1% will make a difference then the error has already been made.
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Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:55 am |
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jonbwfc
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:26 pm Posts: 17040
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The idea that 'Gates = Microsoft' and 'Jobs = Apple' is a massive simplificiation, wrought by a press much more comfortable talking about 'celebrities' that abstract concepts like companies. Jobs had more influence in 'his' company than most CEOs do but both companies have boards of directors who have legally vested authority. There were people in MS who could stand up to Gates, and there were people in Apple who could stand up to Jobs.
Remember, the Apple board had enough clout to fire Jobs once. If the company was just his personal fiefdom, that would never have happened.
As to Jobs' charitable contributions, I don't really see how this is relevant to anything. If he made any, they were his private business. What the heck does that have to do with a legal case between Apple and Samsung? I think portraying entrepreneurial activity as inherently socially valuable activity is a real massive stretch. We have a name for people who take the profits from one and use it as the capital for the other - philanthropists. Jobs was many things, but he was no philanthropist.
Jon
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Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:54 pm |
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james016
Doesn't have much of a life
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 5:52 pm Posts: 1899
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Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:29 pm |
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pcernie
Legend
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:30 pm Posts: 45931 Location: Belfast
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That's about what I'd expect from a jury, especially one asked to look at something as ludicrous as patents are today.
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Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:58 pm |
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jonbwfc
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:26 pm Posts: 17040
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And so, it goes on. The principle has long since left the building, and all we're left with is the lawyers boosting their paychecks.
No jury conclusion, if required to be put down on paper in detail, will be without inconsistencies. Ever. You put 12 people in the room, leave them there for an hour and then afterwards tell them all to write down what they talked about. You won't get two identical answers. And all of them will be wrong in some detail or other.
We don't require juries to provide deep, technical analysis of complex arguments. We require them to come to a decision which most of us, faced with the same evidence, would hope we would come to. That's why there are a group of them, so the large inconsistencies even out. We assume that out of 12 people, at least 7 of them will be reasonably sensible. And we hope that in general people will come to what, in the grand sense, is the right answer.
If jury deliberations and conclusions were always subject to word-by-word forensic analysis, no trial sequence would ever end.
Given the judge has shown a pretty high degree of irritation with both sides already, I can't imagine what she's going to think if Samsung come back with a bunch of objections based on piecemeal analysis of juror reports. I can imagine she'll be pretty reluctant to let this go on any further.
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Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:26 pm |
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steve74
Doesn't have much of a life
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:43 pm Posts: 1798 Location: Manchester
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Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:42 pm |
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