Since I started going to the gym a few months ago my diet has mainly consisted of fish and potatoes. Before this, it was mainly pasta, with a pie at the weekends.
Despite not being a vegetarian I actually eat surprisingly little meat.

Mark

What are we calling 'processed meat? Burgers, mince, pies, sausages etc? Anything that basically doesn't look like an actual piece of meat when you buy it?


Well, me too, but that's because decent meat is sodding expensive. But at least you know which animal it comes from.

True that.

Mark

I don't really get this.
If I buy sausages, bacon, burgers, etc. from the supermarket -> this is bad?
If I buy sausages, bacon, burgers, etc. from the butcher -> this is good*?

If this, then why?


*Less bad

Technically, no. Meat protein is meat protein in dietary terms, regardless of whether it's free range or factory farmed. However higher quality meat products are likely to have less additives (by which I include things like added water or salt, let alone things like stabilisers and flavour enhancers and what have you) than supermarket mass produced products. They may not contribute to the science JJ was talking about, but it's an issue.

It's not an issue if you accept that wanting everyone to live to be 200 yrs old is a ridiculous thing.

No, that's a stupid comment. Try "do you want to die of cancer before you are 40".


The problem is actually that I can't ask the correct question, because no one would be able to answer it due to poor food labelling.

Processed meat contains sulphites (and sulphates which oxidise to sulphites) and they are carcinogenic. What I really want to know is; what is your sulphite-equivalent intake per week in mg? The best indicator is how much "processed" meat you eat.

The reason is because bacteria grow on the surface of meat. That's not a problem when you buy a slab of meat and cook it, because the heat applied to the surface kills the bacteria and denatures their toxins. The bulk of the meat was just fine anyway, so that rare steak won't give you food poisoning.

However, when you mince up meat, lips and arse into a slurry then all of that bacteria is spread evenly throughout the product where it starts to multiply and produce toxins. This isn't such a big deal if you eat it immediately you've made it, but after being stored for a couple of days it could kill you.

Supermarket sausages and burgers have a shelf life well in excess of 24 hours because they load them with preservatives, which are proven to be noxious if you consume significant quantities.

If you make them yourself, or if your butcher does it for you, there won't be any added preservatives which is fine because you're not going to ship them twice around the world before you eat them.

The moral of the story is to buy big chunks of meat and prepare it yourself. Avoid too much read meat because that's not great anyway, for reasons given in the links. Avoid bacon like the plague.

Has anyone read "Larkrise to Candleford"? Her account of bacon is a good indicator of how much we used to eat in the "olden days". Although she only lived to 70, life is so much easier now than it was then that there's no good reason why most people here shouldn't live a long, healthy life well into their retirement.

As I'm fond of pointing out, over-indulgence is the number one cause of ill health in the west.

And again, we need less people on the planet. Better go before you're economically inactive, instead of living to 100 with dementia and being a drain on the public and your family.

Perhaps this chap is onto something, albeit I worry about his lower intestine.

So you're saying you're OK with dying a slow painful death at, say, 37? Most people expect to be "economically active" for longer than that. It's a pretty poor return on investment if you spend 21 - 25 years training someone, and they only work for 10 or so...


This amused me:



However, it's not surprising he feels better in the short run. He used to have bad skin? NSS - look at what he used to eat! We'd need to know what he "ate out" to get a full picture, but eggs for breakfast and burger for tea is not what anyone would call healthy.

I'm not technically averse to a synthetic diet. I've actually said quite a few times that I would love something like dried dog food for people: perfectly balanced without any thought, and the ultimate convenience... but I'm not sure we know enough yet to get it just right.

On the other hand, we do know pretty accurately what foods we evolved to eat. And I like a variety of good food. It seems almost tragic that his synthetic gloup probably contains far fewer harmful chemicals than a ready-meal.

There are so many other factors to be taken into consideration though. Genetic predisposition and other lifestyle choices have to be taken into account - I don't particularly have a desire to die at 37, but I can't see the point in carrying on into my dotage if I'm an idle, dribbling mess costing everyone a fortune simply because I chose to be as fit and healthy as possible just to stave off an earlier death.
Assuming we level out everything else - your genetics, where you live, your drinking and smoking habits, your hobbies, fitness regime and so forth, then yes, there's obviously a value in avoiding processed foods.
It would be nice if every meal we ate was freshly prepared using whole ingredients taken off the land that morning mimicking the kind of diet we'd have had way back when, but this is clearly not possible.
As I say, the last thing the planet needs is an exponentially growing population who are have already doubled their natural lifespan (a lifespan from when way back when, when we ate natural, fresh ingredients taken off the land each day).

There's a lovely long list of things that are carcinogenic here.

FWIW, I've a friend who's thinking of trying the synthetic diet, with some non-absorbing dietary fibre added and a couple of other tweaks for carbohydrate intake. I've suggested Mars bars.

Yes but you could load the dice in your favour by cutting out the really bad things or limiting them. My consumption of meat has been low for years. I do eat red meat but generally well below the recommended 1lb per week. I used to eat mainly chicken, but 7 years of chicken curry has put me off that for a while.

It may be impractical to eat a macrobiotic diet while leading your busy life, but it's totally practical to avoid processed meats. You just don't buy them and put them in your mouth, a bit like "not smoking".

I think that you can avoid them pretty well but there are lots of products that have them. If you have a pizza with salami whether home made or bought in the chances are that you used ready made salami, which is processed. Also if you eat out the chances are that there may be processed meat in some things. You simply will not know. I think that if we ate more in moderation especially the things that are bad for us then we will all be better off. Living on a macrobiotic might not make us live any longer but it will definitely feel like it, without ice-cream or doughnuts.

Modern slaughter houses actually stamp out the arse. They use a round cutter, controlled by a robot, which stamps out the arse, so that it is release from the body, along with the entrails.

Here in Germany, the farmer gets compensated for the eye lids, lips and ears with a standard payment, the parts are removed and not used, as they are "not fit for human consumption," they used to dry the ears and sell them as doggy treats, but the Chinese pay a lot more for them, as they are a delicacy, so a lot gets exported now.

In all the processing plants I've visited so far, none have used the lips or arse in any products, even mince.

The head is usually skinned and the skin disposed of, before it is stripped of meat.

Note, I only have experience of German, Hungarian, Polish and Irish slaughter houses, it might be different in the UK.

I could never do that. I admire people who can do it though, otherwise how would I get my steak?