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Royal wedding: Prince William to marry Kate Middleton 
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jonbwfc wrote:
adidan wrote:
jonbwfc wrote:
if you lot don't like it, well then you can go into work that day and be as miserable as you like.

You miss the point entirely my friend.

No, I'm just making a different point.

I admit that it's actually just a distraction from the pretty awful daily grind most of us currently have. The monarchy in the UK is essentially ephemeral - it presents pageantry and power, but possesses no actual constitutional power worth a damn. I find it amusing that people banging on about a republic don't seem to realise having one will actually change pretty much nothing at all in any concrete way. You'll still get the option to vote for a government every so often, you'll still pay taxes. Whether William is single, married or even exists makes absolutely no measurable difference whatsoever to your circumstances or my circumstances. I think the media went over the top on it but then they do that all the time. Making a mountain out of a molehill seems to be their current raison d'etra.

The argument I am making is that that rarified issue is no good reason to stop lots of people having a good time. It's there, why not use it as an excuse? Why does the news programme only have to be filled with 'real important stuff' when the real important stuff is unremittingly bleak and horrible? Lots of things happened yesterday, some of them are nice, some of them are not. Why is it somehow worthy to only report the nasty ones? Why is suffering somehow more valid reportage than joy?

I'm not actually bothered whether prince William is single or not. I wish them happiness, as I'd wish any other couple on earth who had made the decision they have. But I think we've all become so worn down by the negativity we're surrounded by on a daily basis that some of us no longer seem able to rise above it.

Two people announce they are very much in love and want to get married and what are the first reaction?
'Oh it'll be too expensive', 'Why am I being told this? I don't know them', 'Ah, it's obviously a consipracy to hide bad news isn't it'?' What, like they suddenly feel the need to hide bad news anyway? Isn't that pretty much all we've had for about the last year?

Sometimes, a thing is just what it appears to be. Sometimes, looking for a good thing to take your mind off all the bad things is actually a good idea. Sometimes, just sometimes, isn't it possible to let people be happy for a while without somebody saying "well, you all know it's going to be [LIFTED] again tomorrow, don't you"?

Jon


Must locate my writings about optimism and state-sponsored depression. It needs updating and possibly entering into the great X404 writing pool.

To be painfully honest, it will take more than this to cheer me up - and no amount of jollying up the picture by the media will nudge me in the right direction. Apart from various personal sources of angst, I really think we’re being deliberately knocked down by the government. Conditions are being created to prolong the misery for a good decade or so.

Sure, if a royal wedding cheers people up, then fine, but that cheer will last as long as the confetti from a party popper will stay bright and colourful before its inevitable trip up a vacuum cleaner hose. Like the rest of the dust in the Hoover bag, the greyness of modern existence will return.

We need more than a quick fix to cheer the nation up. We’ve had a decade of international terrorism, economic decline and more, and I really think we, as a nation, have lost the ability to be optimistic about the world in general. We’ve been there before, and somehow post WWII, there was a wave of genuine optimism. The government started looking at how best they can serve the people, and we got exciting new things like the Welfare State, a flurry of building, better education, the NHS. Looking at old news reels of the time I can’t help thinking that there was a future - something to look forward to despite what appeared to be crushing poverty.

We don’t have that now. All the good stuff will be dismantled. It’s grim, and will be for a long time. The royal wedding will be like pissing yourself in a blizzard. You will be warm for only a few minutes.

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Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:52 pm
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jonbwfc wrote:
<rant>


The advantage of a Republic is thus - the head honcho actually becomes directly accountable to the people, you know, that democracy thing we all like, and a presidency can be a powerful check on the legislature, particularly in the Parliamentary system where the governing party so heavily dominates the very legislature that's supposed to keep the executive in check.

I honestly don't know why, in the 21st century, we are still paying for a family whose only qualification is to be born into the job. Jesus, at least with a Presidency not only does someone have to work for it, but I get to vote the bastage out too.

As for the wedding, yeah whoopee do; two twenty-somethings are getting married, it happens on a daily basis. Frankly I'm more interested in the neighbour's wedding, but UK taxpayer PLC isn't footing the bill for that.

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Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:19 pm
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Linux_User wrote:
As for the wedding, yeah whoopee do; two twenty-somethings are getting married, it happens on a daily basis. Frankly I'm more interested in the neighbour's wedding, but UK taxpayer PLC isn't footing the bill for that.

And they are not paying for this one either.

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Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:05 am
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Amnesia10 wrote:
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As for the wedding, yeah whoopee do; two twenty-somethings are getting married, it happens on a daily basis. Frankly I'm more interested in the neighbour's wedding, but UK taxpayer PLC isn't footing the bill for that.

And they are not paying for this one either.


Oh really? Is Tesco sponsoring?

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Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:16 am
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Viva la republic!!!

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Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:32 am
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In the UK I suspect a presidency would just be a figurehead like the Queen is now, only probably open to even more government influence :evil:

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Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:28 am
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Linux_User wrote:
Amnesia10 wrote:
Linux_User wrote:
As for the wedding, yeah whoopee do; two twenty-somethings are getting married, it happens on a daily basis. Frankly I'm more interested in the neighbour's wedding, but UK taxpayer PLC isn't footing the bill for that.

And they are not paying for this one either.

Oh really? Is Tesco sponsoring?

Waitrose, surely :).
I don't think they're short of a bob themselves. We may pay something in the details - costs for security for any visiting heads of state for example - but we'd pay that if they visited to see the PM or for a summit, so it's not a specifically royalist thing.

If we had an elected presidency the same as they have in France say, it would just be one more place for political infighting and self-aggrandisment. if we're going to have a non-monarchic head of state, I'd rather had one that wasn't just another politician, to be honest. Let's face it, if you look at some of the berks who do get elected throughout the world, it's pretty hard to claim that the system that chooses them is by definition doing better than just picking someone because of who their parents are. If we have a president I'd like it to be an office given to someone on objective merit, say if they win a nobel prize or have accumulated a number of olympic gold medals. I think I'd rather have Steve Redgrave as president that Nicholas Sarkosy.

Jon

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Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:12 pm
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jonbwfc wrote:
If we had an elected presidency the same as they have in France say, it would just be one more place for political infighting and self-aggrandisment. if we're going to have a non-monarchic head of state, I'd rather had one that wasn't just another politician, to be honest.

Who they are, what they did, the role they would play, be it figurative or with substantial powers, would be chosen and defined by the people.

They would be chosen by the people, that's the point.

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Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:45 pm
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adidan wrote:
They would be chosen by the people, that's the point.

I have no confidence whatsoever in the ability of 'the people' to choose someone who is at all possessed of any level of competence to do the job. Look at the people they have been choosing to run the country recently for cripe's sake.

If you went into hospital, would you want the doctor treating you to have been voted into the job, or would you prefer someone who actually had some record of useful medical skill? If five people stood for election to be that doctor, would you be willing to bet your life that the one chosen would be the one who actually knew medicine, or would it just be the one who looked good on the telly?

Democracy is the system we have chosen to elect the people who govern us as it stands. That's fair enough, it's the system we've chosen. That doesn't mean it always has to be the way we always choose the people who govern us regardless of change. There are many systems of government where leaders are chosen by many different criteria. We arrogantly assume democracy is the best in all cases because it's the one we're currently using. Evidence seems to suggest it leads to an accumulation of self-interested people at the top and massive disenfranchisement of everyone else.

If we're going to change our constitution (which being a republic would actually involve) I'd prefer us to sit down and figure what gets us the best person to lead, rather than just keeping the system which, for the last 20 years, seems to have given us whichever incompetent idiot in an expensive suit has the sharpest spin doctor.

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Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:07 pm
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jonbwfc wrote:
I have no confidence whatsoever in the ability of 'the people' to choose

I'm sorry, I'll stop you right there. What right do you have to make that judgement about everyone else and for everyone else?

Whether they're capable or not is not, I'm afraid, a judgement that any of us have the right to make. If we believe the masses make the wrong decision they have to be convinced to change their minds.

jonbwfc wrote:
If we're going to change our constitution (which being a republic would actually involve) I'd prefer us to sit down and figure what gets us the best person to lead, rather than just keeping the system which, for the last 20 years, seems to have given us whichever incompetent idiot in an expensive suit has the sharpest spin doctor.

I don't think we disagree on that. There's nothing to say that the President has to be more than a figurehead with limited powers. Do we even need one? Anyway, that's a further discussion, my point is the people should not be 'subjects' they should be 'citizens' and they should decide who are in positions of power.

It's a bit hypocritical for the UK to try and promote "democracy" (whatever that is in reality) when the UK has an unelected Head of State that is only there out of breeding.

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Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:59 pm
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Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:24 pm
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adidan wrote:
jonbwfc wrote:
I have no confidence whatsoever in the ability of 'the people' to choose

I'm sorry, I'll stop you right there. What right do you have to make that judgement about everyone else and for everyone else?

I wasn't aware I was making policy. You posited a system, I gave you my opinion on it. In fact, I specifically avoided proposing another system that may be used to choose a constitutional leader in any more than the general 'give it to someone whose actually achieved something' sense. I largely stated that I had no confidence in the democratic system to do so competently, mainly on the basis that for most of my lifetime the democratic system has shackled the nation to leaders I don't consider safe to be left in charge of a lawnmower, let alone an entire country.

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It's a bit hypocritical for the UK to try and promote "democracy" (whatever that is in reality) when the UK has an unelected Head of State that is only there out of breeding.

We're arrogant to promote democracy full stop. We've got no right to tell other people how they should govern themselves and, as I say, given it's a system that's recently brought such luminaries to power as George W Bush and Sylvio Berlusconi, I think anyone else we suggested it to would have every right to laugh in our faces.

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Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:44 pm
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jonbwfc wrote:
We're arrogant to promote democracy full stop. We've got no right to tell other people how they should govern themselves and, as I say, given it's a system that's recently brought such luminaries to power as George W Bush and Sylvio Berlusconi, I think anyone else we suggested it to would have every right to laugh in our faces.

We agree on that. Democracy is an illusion afterall.

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Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:47 pm
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forquare1 wrote:
It's all a scam! The British mug manufacturers have been quiet for a few years and want some more business! </Bill Bailey>

Yes but were William and Harry buying up shares in Mug manufacturers? Insider trading!!! :lol:

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Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:26 pm
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The wedding is to be held on April 29th, which will be a public holiday. This is good. That is a Friday, the Monday of that week is Easter Monday (also a bank holiday) and the Monday after is May Bank Holiday. So it's three day weekend - three days of work - four day weekend. Win!

Jon


Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:16 pm
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