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People happy to use airport full-body scanners - survey 
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rustybucket wrote:
Benjamin Franklin wrote:
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

I believe that my body and images of it belong to me and me alone.s


^^ This.

I'm a sovereign human being and my body, mind and spirit are my own. I should be allowed to do with them, whatever I please. This is [LIFTED] and those of you screaming terrorism and faster security times have unfortunately succumbed to the governmental/mass media brainwashing that there's a Durkhadurkhastani around every corner and we need endless curtailing of our freedom to protect us.


Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:56 pm
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okenobi wrote:
rustybucket wrote:
Benjamin Franklin wrote:
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

I believe that my body and images of it belong to me and me alone.s


^^ This.

I'm a sovereign human being and my body, mind and spirit are my own. I should be allowed to do with them, whatever I please. This is [LIFTED] and those of you screaming terrorism and faster security times have unfortunately succumbed to the governmental/mass media brainwashing that there's a Durkhadurkhastani around every corner and we need endless curtailing of our freedom to protect us.


And the terrorists have won.

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Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:48 pm
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paulzolo wrote:
And the terrorists have won.


And what terrorists would that be then?


Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:14 pm
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okenobi wrote:
paulzolo wrote:
And the terrorists have won.


And what terrorists would that be then?

George W Bush, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, Peter Mandelson, The entire ACPO...

What? I define 'terrorist' as someone who uses induced fear in the population to achieve a political end. Are you telling me the above don't fit that definition?


Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:18 pm
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jonbwfc wrote:
okenobi wrote:
paulzolo wrote:
And the terrorists have won.


And what terrorists would that be then?

George W Bush, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, Peter Mandelson, The entire ACPO...

What? I define 'terrorist' as someone who uses induced fear in the population to achieve a political end. Are you telling me the above don't fit that definition?

or maybe we shouldn't halt technology advances by shouting "terrorist"? metal scanners are outdated when risks are linked to non metallic counpounds.


Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:26 pm
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TheFrenchun wrote:
or maybe we shouldn't halt technology advances by shouting "terrorist"? metal scanners are outdated when risks are linked to non metallic counpounds.

Well so are body scanners when every attempt to smuggle explosives onto a plane other than in luggage has proved pointless since it's impossible to smuggle anything powerful enough to do any harm onto a plane in your hand luggage or on your person without being detected by the means that predate these kinds of scanners. Like, as was the case last time I flew, a spaniel with a sensitive nose. Both the recent guy with the material down his trousers and Richard Rogers managed to do little more than embarrass themselves and anyone who knows enough chemistry would tell you it's always likely to be that way.

Or when the terrorists can blow up a train instead. Or an underground station. Or a tram.

These scanners are, if you will excuse the pun, a scam. The only 'terrorists' they would catch are the kind of disturbed individuals who are too unbalanced to actually pull off a successful attack anyway. High explosives - the kind you need to have if as a terrorist you don't want to get on the plane lugging something the size of an oil drum - are actually very hard to make, quite hard to keep stable and easy to detect by traditional means like chemical sniffer arches and small dogs. The reason most terrorist acts are performed with car bombs isn't for convenience, it's because mostly the explosives terrorists have access to are so poor you need a car full to get anything like a decent bang. These scanners will not increase your safety on a plane by anything more than a minute amount, because the bare fact is the risk of the plane crashing through entirely non-malevolent means is a much bigger risk and even then it's approaching vanishingly small. All these scanners will do is inconvenience and discomfort the innocent travelling public on the basis of providing an illusion of security to the naive, while the actual evil people go off and find a target that is unprotected and by definition cannot be protected, like a busy city centre or train station.

And that's even without considering the invasion of privacy. There have already been a couple of cases where protocol has been breached and scans have been found to have been used for purposes other than the stated one. In fact, I believe one bollywood actor has already successfully sued the BAA after an image of his scan fell into the hands of the press.

I'm off away through Manchester Airport in a few weeks. I assume I will have to undergo this procedure. But nothing about it will make me feel one iota safer because I've done enough reading of the issues to know that they're a joke security measure put in place as a show to countering a threat that doesn't actually exist in any tangible way.


Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:02 pm
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okenobi wrote:
paulzolo wrote:
And the terrorists have won.


And what terrorists would that be then?


The Eurasian terrorists. They have always been the ones to worry about.

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Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:05 pm
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On the last case of an attempted attack on Christmas day airport security was ineffective. The fact is that now the public know that the plane is not going to be hijacked but blown up instead. The passengers are the best line of defence. Now all we need are proper cutlery knives so if we do see someone being naughty we can stab the sod.

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Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:36 pm
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TheFrenchun wrote:
or maybe we shouldn't halt technology advances by shouting "terrorist"? metal scanners are outdated when risks are linked to non metallic counpounds.


Or maybe we should stop to think about what qualifies as a "technological advance" and what doesn't actually advance anything except some people's control over us and their ability to instil fear into Joe Schmo.

Jon, you're mostly there with your definition. But this isn't about politics. It's merely about control, power and money. Their agenda goes beyond changing foreign policy or certain laws or any "conventional" political aim. They just want control. And as long as people think it's ok to have their bodies scanned - they have it.


Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:32 am
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I agree with jon in that it will not make us appreciably safer. Planes crash all the time without any intervention from terrorists. In fact now that the public know about the suicide attempts meaning that hostage taking is no long an option also means that hijacking is now much riskier because passengers will fight back now. It will move any terrorist activity to city centres and less well protected sites. Do I feel any safer because of the scanners? No but I will feel more violated. These measure are great for the manufacturers of the scanners but few others.

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Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:44 am
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okenobi wrote:
paulzolo wrote:
And the terrorists have won.


And what terrorists would that be then?


The Eastasian terrorists. They have always been the ones to worry about.

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brataccas wrote:
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Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:03 am
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paulzolo wrote:
okenobi wrote:
paulzolo wrote:
And the terrorists have won.


And what terrorists would that be then?


The Eastasian terrorists. They have always been the ones to worry about.

Well said, comrade

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Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:44 pm
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Ok, now I'm with you Paul. Sorry I'm a little slow on the uptake atm.

I think you'll think though, that it's the Libyans you really have to watch out for.


Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:14 pm
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The question is a moot one really, they don't work if you're gauging effectiveness by terrorist attacks employing methods recently used.
Quote:
Airport body scanners would be "unlikely" to detect many of the explosive devices used by terrorist groups, a Tory MP has warned
BBC News
The MP in question used to work for QinetiQ who are one of the manufacturers of the scanners.

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Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:55 pm
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okenobi wrote:
Ok, now I'm with you Paul. Sorry I'm a little slow on the uptake atm.


I’m glad I didn’t have to explain myself any less obliquely then :-D

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