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Shopper's plea to security guard over 'choke death'
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Author:  Amnesia10 [ Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Shopper's plea to security guard over 'choke death'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-sout ... s-11389896

Quote:
A shopper has told a jury how she pleaded with a security guard to release a shoplifter he allegedly choked to death.

Samantha Gregory told Swansea Crown Court she warned Sam Bawden he could kill 22-year-old Aaron Bishop, whom he had in a neck hold.

Mr Bishop died at the city's Quadrant centre last year after he was caught stealing a £35 bottle of perfume.

Mr Bawden, 25 and from Neath, denies manslaughter. The trial continues.

Mr Bishop, a former soldier who had acted as a Guardsman at Windsor Castle, was chased down by four security guards who held him in place awaiting the police.

Ms Gregory said: "His head was purple. He was being restrained by the neck and that was what was blocking his airways and changing his colour."

She said two men were holding his legs, a third was holding his arms and Mr Bawden had him around the neck.

"The man being restrained was not doing much physically," she added.

"His face was down on the floor facing the concrete. He was just trying to breathe."

Security guard Sam Bawden denies a charge of unlawful killing
Patrick Harrington QC, prosecuting, asked: "From what you saw, was the way he was being held around the throat appropriate?"

She replied: "It was definitely not the way. It was 100% not the way to restrain somebody around the neck.

"He was obviously pinned down by other men, he did not need to be held around the neck."

She said Mr Bishop was saying: "'Let me breathe. I cannot breathe'."

She said she became increasingly angry towards the security guard.

"I then think a manager approached me and told me that they were trained in restraint and they knew what they were doing," she said.

"That made me really angry because I'm not trained in restraint and I know you do not restrain someone like that."

Author:  JohnSheridan [ Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shopper's plea to security guard over 'choke death'

I hope that guy gets sent down for a long time - since when has he been made judge, jury and executioner ?

Yes the bloke was a shoplifter but that does not give anyone the right to kill them.

Author:  cloaked_wolf [ Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shopper's plea to security guard over 'choke death'

As far as I'm concerned, murder pure and simple. If you have three people pinning someone down, you don't need a fourth to choke them or hold their neck!

Author:  Nick [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shopper's plea to security guard over 'choke death'

JohnSheridan wrote:
Yes the bloke was a shoplifter but that does not give anyone the right to kill them.


According to some on here, yes it does. :? :shock:

Author:  Amnesia10 [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shopper's plea to security guard over 'choke death'

cloaked_wolf wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, murder pure and simple. If you have three people pinning someone down, you don't need a fourth to choke them or hold their neck!

Plus he was an ex soldier so trained to kill not restrain. Yes it will either be murder or manslaughter as it may not have been premeditated.

Author:  rustybucket [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shopper's plea to security guard over 'choke death'

cloaked_wolf wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, murder pure and simple. If you have three people pinning someone down, you don't need a fourth to choke them or hold their neck!

It's not quite that easy though is it?

A murder prosecution would have to establish that there was an intent to kill and premeditation.

Unless the security guard openly stated that he was going to strangle the next shoplifter he caught, I'm not sure how premeditation could be properly proven.

Author:  Amnesia10 [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shopper's plea to security guard over 'choke death'

rustybucket wrote:
cloaked_wolf wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, murder pure and simple. If you have three people pinning someone down, you don't need a fourth to choke them or hold their neck!

It's not quite that easy though is it?

A murder prosecution would have to establish that there was an intent to kill and premeditation.

Unless the security guard openly stated that he was going to strangle the next shoplifter he caught, I'm not sure how premeditation could be properly proven.

Yes but he was an ex soldier therefore would have been trained to kill. That might have meant that he should have taken more precautions. In this case it could be upgraded to murder.

Author:  rustybucket [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shopper's plea to security guard over 'choke death'

Amnesia10 wrote:
rustybucket wrote:
cloaked_wolf wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, murder pure and simple. If you have three people pinning someone down, you don't need a fourth to choke them or hold their neck!

It's not quite that easy though is it?

A murder prosecution would have to establish that there was an intent to kill and premeditation.

Unless the security guard openly stated that he was going to strangle the next shoplifter he caught, I'm not sure how premeditation could be properly proven.

Yes but he was an ex soldier therefore would have been trained to kill. That might have meant that he should have taken more precautions. In this case it could be upgraded to murder.

Ah so he was trained to be a lethal weapon himself and so the lethal weapon rule applies?

"Thus, if the defendant intentionally uses a deadly weapon or instrument against the victim, such use authorizes a permissive inference of intent to kill. "

Interesting thought. :?

Author:  soddit112 [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shopper's plea to security guard over 'choke death'

Amnesia10 wrote:
cloaked_wolf wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, murder pure and simple. If you have three people pinning someone down, you don't need a fourth to choke them or hold their neck!

Plus he was an ex soldier so trained to kill not restrain. Yes it will either be murder or manslaughter as it may not have been premeditated.


re-read the article, the guy who died was the ex-soldier, not the security guard.

i actually have nothing on-topic to say about this article, its horrible :|

Author:  rustybucket [ Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shopper's plea to security guard over 'choke death'

soddit112 wrote:
re-read the article, the guy who died was the ex-soldier, not the security guard.

D'Oh!

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