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Benefits frauds face lifetime welfare ban http://www.x404.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=10778 |
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Author: | Amnesia10 [ Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:23 pm ] | |||||||||
Post subject: | Benefits frauds face lifetime welfare ban | |||||||||
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... e-ban.html
As long as you treat MP's who fiddle their expenses as fraudsters and deprive them of their pensions then it will be fair. The real problem is that many people slip into it because of the changes in circumstances. Also living arrangements are private affairs. Can you imagine the uproar if employers based pay on living arrangements, and cut them because you were married or had someone staying. Also this will not really affect the benefit gangs who have multiple aliases but the ordinary person. |
Author: | l3v1ck [ Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:37 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Benefits frauds face lifetime welfare ban |
Good. That is all. ![]() |
Author: | Spreadie [ Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:32 pm ] | |||||||||
Post subject: | Re: Benefits frauds face lifetime welfare ban | |||||||||
Not good, at all. The Social are guaranteed to f**k up someone's benefit and then stitch them up as fraudsters. |
Author: | l3v1ck [ Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:34 pm ] | ||||||||||||||||||
Post subject: | Re: Benefits frauds face lifetime welfare ban | ||||||||||||||||||
Obviously there'd need to be an appeals process. But the types you see on the news who've blatently lied for years to claim huge sums should be financially punished. I'm not talking a few hundred quid here or there, I'm talking five figure sums. |
Author: | ProfessorF [ Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:51 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Benefits frauds face lifetime welfare ban |
What's the percentage of those doing that compared to the percentage who are merely using what they're entitled to? My sister, for example, is presently unemployed but too proud to sign on and claim any of the benefits she's entitled to after 20 years of teaching. For every one benefits cheat, there's probably a dozen who are entitled but don't claim. |
Author: | Spreadie [ Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:54 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Benefits frauds face lifetime welfare ban |
FFS, thats the third time I've lost a long reply because it failed to post. Anyway, it sounds like hard line bluster for the media news bites, with no real substance. Most of the accomplished scroungers won't bat an eye-lid, because if they can't catch you they can't punish you. How about they put the effort into sorting out the tax and benefits system in the first place? Save the sound bites for the Sun readers. |
Author: | oceanicitl [ Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:18 pm ] | |||||||||
Post subject: | Re: Benefits frauds face lifetime welfare ban | |||||||||
I tried to claim a few years ago when I was out of work for 3 months and by the time they sorted it out I had a job so I told them where to go. I'm actually involved in a benefits fraud case myself at the moment. Went to court last week as a witness for the prosecution but case was adjourned as the prosecuted wanted to get his Mum in as a witness. Waste of my time as I had to go to deepest Essex for it. Ho hum. ![]() |
Author: | Amnesia10 [ Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:33 pm ] | ||||||||||||||||||
Post subject: | Re: Benefits frauds face lifetime welfare ban | ||||||||||||||||||
Also what if you make a mistake will that be marked as a fraudulent attempt? Wait till some six year old is in hospital because of starvation in a deprived area with no jobs, simply because the parents are banned from benefits. Where would people live? A great way of creating a huge underclass with nothing to lose who will be forced to turn to crime. ![]() |
Author: | ShockWaffle [ Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:38 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Benefits frauds face lifetime welfare ban |
This is a publicity stunt which could never result in actual legislation. Banning somebody from making welfare claims for life would result in a massively expensive appeal to the European court which the govt would be guaranteed to lose. |
Author: | Amnesia10 [ Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:33 pm ] | |||||||||
Post subject: | Re: Benefits frauds face lifetime welfare ban | |||||||||
And very embarrassing. Maybe the EU should have a law that bans for life any politician that comes up with a stupid law being allowed to travel within the EU. ![]() |
Author: | Linux_User [ Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:51 pm ] | ||||||||||||||||||
Post subject: | Re: Benefits frauds face lifetime welfare ban | ||||||||||||||||||
Just to be clear, it would be a breach of the European Convention on Human Rights and the ECHR has nothing to do with either the European Union or Community Law. |
Author: | Amnesia10 [ Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:27 pm ] | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Post subject: | Re: Benefits frauds face lifetime welfare ban | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
I was being very sarcastic. ![]() |
Author: | cloaked_wolf [ Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:22 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Benefits frauds face lifetime welfare ban |
I read the front page of the local rag today. Some woman claimed £51,000 a year in benefits whilst she worked as a pub landlady and ran the pub. Obviously there has to be some way of punishing such people. I have some ideas but they are extreme. I think lifetime bans are going to be unenforceable but there should be a way of making sure fraudsters are punished, pay back their fraud and also deterred from doing it again. |
Author: | Linux_User [ Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:26 pm ] | |||||||||
Post subject: | Re: Benefits frauds face lifetime welfare ban | |||||||||
I've seen benefit fraudsters sent to prison as much as 30 years after the fraud took place (they were also ordered to re-pay the money). I don't think this lifetime ban will add anything to the existing system. |
Author: | jonbwfc [ Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:36 pm ] | ||||||||||||||||||
Post subject: | Re: Benefits frauds face lifetime welfare ban | ||||||||||||||||||
Excuse me, but I don't remember seeing anything in the ECHR that's specifically about social benefits. There are various 'material rights' but they were very careful not specify exactly how those rights should be met. Even as implemented in the Human Rights Act, only the following are specified :- Right to life Freedom from torture and inhuman or degrading treatment Right to liberty and security Freedom from slavery and forced labour Right to a fair trial No punishment without law Respect for your private and family life, home and correspondence Freedom of thought, belief and religion Freedom of expression Freedom of assembly and association Right to marry and start a family Protection from discrimination in respect of these these rights and freedoms Right to peaceful enjoyment of your property Right to education Right to participate in free elections I don't see a right to be housed, or clothed or fed in there. The ECHR is possibly over-ridden by the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Article 25 of that states..
The EC rules (and therefore the HRA) are based on on the UN Declaration but even the UN Declaration merely states people have the right to those things, not the requirement to be provided with them. The 'right to' something simply means nobody is able to deprive you of those things or stop you from acquiring them, not that you should automatically be provided with them. This is something a very large number of people seem to be confused about. We provide the welfare state because we believe we, as a civilised nation, should. I happen to agree with this notion. The question in the case of that support being withdrawn from someone for abusing it is not about infringing their human rights by not providing it but it possibly could be if it were decided that such withdrawal was 'inhuman or degrading treatment' for the crime of abusing the system. However I don't think that's an open and shut case by any means. Jon |
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