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British banks have £140 billion exposure to Irish economy
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Amnesia10
Legend
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:02 am Posts: 29240 Location: Guantanamo Bay (thanks bobbdobbs)
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_________________Do concentrate, 007... "You are gifted. Mine is bordering on seven seconds." https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTg5MzczNTkhttp://astore.amazon.co.uk/wwwx404couk-21
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Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:24 pm |
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Linux_User
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 3:29 pm Posts: 7173
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Bring on the bail-out. If it stops the banking sector sinking the British economy again, I'm all for it.
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Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:27 pm |
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Amnesia10
Legend
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:02 am Posts: 29240 Location: Guantanamo Bay (thanks bobbdobbs)
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If it were to stop the crisis then yes I would agree the bail out is the best solution. I do not not think that it will work though. It might keep Ireland solvent for a few years but the underlying problem is that the banks assets are grossly overvalued and all this might do is push the problem down the road till the least convenient time. Then when they collapse there will be no more EU funds to fund a second bail out. Then it will cause panic. It would be better to wipe out the liabilities of the banks then use the funds to rebuild Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece and Portugal.
All that will happen if they proceed with this bail out is that Portugal and Spain will be the next targets and we will have to bail out the Spanish banks as well. That will be a lot more. If we are supposed to be in this all together why aren't the banks investors sharing any pain?
_________________Do concentrate, 007... "You are gifted. Mine is bordering on seven seconds." https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTg5MzczNTkhttp://astore.amazon.co.uk/wwwx404couk-21
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Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:27 am |
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MrStevenRogers
Spends far too much time on here
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:44 pm Posts: 4860
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 |  |  |  | Quote: If Ireland is fundamentally incapable of paying off all it owes - which is equivalent to an oppressive 700% of GDP when banking, public sector and private sector debts are added together -some will say it is grotesquely unfair that the cost should fall entirely on taxpayers in Ireland, the European Union and (if IMF money is drawn) the rest of the world.
What would then be triggered would be enormous payments by underwriters of credit default swaps (CDSs), the debt insurance contracts taken out by lenders and speculators. These payments would generate enormous losses for the financial institutions, including banks, which provided the CDS cover.
Even without the CDS loss multiplier, the impact of debt haircuts would be painful for British and international banks. According to the Bank for International Settlements, total lending of non-Irish banks to Irish banks is around $170bn, of which British banks provided $42bn, German banks provided $46bn, US banks $25bn and French banks $21bn.
Which British banks are at risk? Well according to new research by Morgan Stanley, total lending to Ireland’s private and public sectors is equivalent to 92.3% of the net assets of Denmark’s Danske Bank, 89.5% of Royal Bank of Scotland’s net assets, 60.2% of Lloyds’ net assets and 15.9% of Barclays’ net assets. Those figures exclude bank-to-bank lending, but they indicate how exposed Britain’s banks are to Ireland’s woes (RBS is most exposed, as the owner of a substantial Irish bank, Ulster Bank). |  |  |  |  |
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters ... nt_fo.htmlbanks and bankers are going to bring us to are knees and this is only the start PIIGS, Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Spain are all in the same boat here may lie the beginning of the end for the €uro ...
_________________ Hope this helps . . . Steve ...
Nothing known travels faster than light, except bad news ... HP Pavilion 24" AiO. Ryzen7u. 32GB/1TB M2. Windows 11 Home ...
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Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:05 am |
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Amnesia10
Legend
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:02 am Posts: 29240 Location: Guantanamo Bay (thanks bobbdobbs)
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 |  |  |  | MrStevenRogers wrote:  |  |  |  | Quote: If Ireland is fundamentally incapable of paying off all it owes - which is equivalent to an oppressive 700% of GDP when banking, public sector and private sector debts are added together -some will say it is grotesquely unfair that the cost should fall entirely on taxpayers in Ireland, the European Union and (if IMF money is drawn) the rest of the world.
What would then be triggered would be enormous payments by underwriters of credit default swaps (CDSs), the debt insurance contracts taken out by lenders and speculators. These payments would generate enormous losses for the financial institutions, including banks, which provided the CDS cover.
Even without the CDS loss multiplier, the impact of debt haircuts would be painful for British and international banks. According to the Bank for International Settlements, total lending of non-Irish banks to Irish banks is around $170bn, of which British banks provided $42bn, German banks provided $46bn, US banks $25bn and French banks $21bn.
Which British banks are at risk? Well according to new research by Morgan Stanley, total lending to Ireland’s private and public sectors is equivalent to 92.3% of the net assets of Denmark’s Danske Bank, 89.5% of Royal Bank of Scotland’s net assets, 60.2% of Lloyds’ net assets and 15.9% of Barclays’ net assets. Those figures exclude bank-to-bank lending, but they indicate how exposed Britain’s banks are to Ireland’s woes (RBS is most exposed, as the owner of a substantial Irish bank, Ulster Bank). |  |  |  |  |
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters ... nt_fo.htmlbanks and bankers are going to bring us to are knees and this is only the start PIIGS, Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Spain are all in the same boat here may lie the beginning of the end for the €uro ... |  |  |  |  |
The euro will survive if they cast off the banks and allow them to fail. It will eliminate the liabilities of the banks and allow governments to restart. If Ireland defaulted totally then RBS would lose €46 billion and so would the UK tax payer. The fault is of the politicians to step in and bail out the banks before the extent of its losses were known. This is not unique to the UK or Ireland. Every country has done that to an extent. What Ireland should have done is a swedish style banking resolution and put all the bad assets in one bank and create new banks. It could have meant a whole new banking sector using the branch networks of the old banks and even broken them up still further, to create some competition. Longer term, every European country has a banking sector too large for its needs and until they fail and shrink they will be a burden on its citizens. This is nothing more than a giant bank bailout, and we should not be doing it. The reason that the UK will do it is to protect the UK banks and the same for Germany and France. Allow the banks to collapse even if it means the end of every bank within europe. All small depositors will be covered and then create new banks. This will solve the problem of bank bonuses as well. Then if Ireland need a bailout then it will be a lot smaller.
_________________Do concentrate, 007... "You are gifted. Mine is bordering on seven seconds." https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTg5MzczNTkhttp://astore.amazon.co.uk/wwwx404couk-21
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Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:21 am |
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MrStevenRogers
Spends far too much time on here
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:44 pm Posts: 4860
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i can agree with most but not all
no way are/the/all Govts. going to allow the banks to fail because of 'invested interests' which they themselves hold within the banking sector it would have been far easier to have paid all accounts holders of failed banks then prop up the banks
but this did not happen they propped up the banks and that is what we have to live and deal with the amount of bad debt that is held by the whole banking system, world wide, is massive and the taxpayer has only been used to keep them solvent not administer the banks massive debt
it is now 2/3 years later and the piper is being asked to be paid but we have run out of room to move the only way now is for national economies to fail/fall with all the knock on effects that will entail ...
_________________ Hope this helps . . . Steve ...
Nothing known travels faster than light, except bad news ... HP Pavilion 24" AiO. Ryzen7u. 32GB/1TB M2. Windows 11 Home ...
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Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:08 am |
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paulzolo
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:27 pm Posts: 12251
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By the time this is all over, we’ll find that the actual amount of money in the world adds up to 50p once all the wealth created by debts is eliminated.
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Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:33 pm |
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Amnesia10
Legend
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:02 am Posts: 29240 Location: Guantanamo Bay (thanks bobbdobbs)
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I accept that the banks will not be allowed to collapse because it will end the easy jobs market for MPs, the world over. What will happen is that they will be bailed out at the expense of the average taxpayer. The rich tax payer will be barely touched because they will have their money else where. That is why I suspect that revolutions are very likely to be the main outcome of this. There are concerns of a rise of a far right party in Ireland, and it will happen else where as well.
_________________Do concentrate, 007... "You are gifted. Mine is bordering on seven seconds." https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTg5MzczNTkhttp://astore.amazon.co.uk/wwwx404couk-21
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Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:04 pm |
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paulzolo
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:27 pm Posts: 12251
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Complete this joke without resorting to stereotyping:
An Englishman, an Irishman and a Scotsman walk into a bank…
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Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:22 pm |
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Linux_User
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 3:29 pm Posts: 7173
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The Englishman and the Welshman bail the Scot and the Irishman out. 
Last edited by Linux_User on Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:23 pm |
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adidan
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:43 pm Posts: 5048
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No, they've already done that, now they're kicking sand in our faces.
_________________ Fogmeister I ventured into Solitude but didn't really do much. jonbwfc I was behind her in a queue today - but I wouldn't describe it as 'bushy'.
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Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:00 pm |
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Amnesia10
Legend
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:02 am Posts: 29240 Location: Guantanamo Bay (thanks bobbdobbs)
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What is wrong is that they will still be paying bonuses even though they would collapse if Ireland defaulted. The politicians will not solve this until there is finance reform of the parties. It is too easy for the party to be funded by a few rich people. That should end.
_________________Do concentrate, 007... "You are gifted. Mine is bordering on seven seconds." https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTg5MzczNTkhttp://astore.amazon.co.uk/wwwx404couk-21
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Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:46 pm |
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