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British banks have £140 billion exposure to Irish economy
http://www.x404.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=11515		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:24 pm ]
Post subject:  British banks have £140 billion exposure to Irish economy
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... risis.html

Quote:
RBS, the largely-nationalised bank, is thought to have the biggest exposure with more than £50 billion of outstanding loans.
Amid the growing fears that an Irish collapse could have a serious knock-on effect in this country, Mr Osborne said that the Treasury was considering all options for financial aid.

This is the real reason for the Irish bail out.
Author:  Linux_User [ Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: British banks have £140 billion exposure to Irish economy
Amnesia10 wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ireland/8141618/British-banks-have-140-billion-exposure-to-Irelands-economic-crisis.html

Quote:
RBS, the largely-nationalised bank, is thought to have the biggest exposure with more than £50 billion of outstanding loans.
Amid the growing fears that an Irish collapse could have a serious knock-on effect in this country, Mr Osborne said that the Treasury was considering all options for financial aid.

This is the real reason for the Irish bail out.


Bring on the bail-out. If it stops the banking sector sinking the British economy again, I'm all for it.
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: British banks have £140 billion exposure to Irish economy
If it were to stop the crisis then yes I would agree the bail out is the best solution. I do not not think that it will work though. It might keep Ireland solvent for a few years but the underlying problem is that the banks assets are grossly overvalued and all this might do is push the problem down the road till the least convenient time. Then when they collapse there will be no more EU funds to fund a second bail out. Then it will cause panic. It would be better to wipe out the liabilities of the banks then use the funds to rebuild Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece and Portugal.

All that will happen if they proceed with this bail out is that Portugal and Spain will be the next targets and we will have to bail out the Spanish banks as well. That will be a lot more. If we are supposed to be in this all together why aren't the banks investors sharing any pain?
Author:  MrStevenRogers [ Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: British banks have £140 billion exposure to Irish economy
Quote:
If Ireland is fundamentally incapable of paying off all it owes - which is equivalent to an oppressive 700% of GDP when banking, public sector and private sector debts are added together -some will say it is grotesquely unfair that the cost should fall entirely on taxpayers in Ireland, the European Union and (if IMF money is drawn) the rest of the world.

What would then be triggered would be enormous payments by underwriters of credit default swaps (CDSs), the debt insurance contracts taken out by lenders and speculators. These payments would generate enormous losses for the financial institutions, including banks, which provided the CDS cover.

Even without the CDS loss multiplier, the impact of debt haircuts would be painful for British and international banks. According to the Bank for International Settlements, total lending of non-Irish banks to Irish banks is around $170bn, of which British banks provided $42bn, German banks provided $46bn, US banks $25bn and French banks $21bn.

Which British banks are at risk? Well according to new research by Morgan Stanley, total lending to Ireland’s private and public sectors is equivalent to 92.3% of the net assets of Denmark’s Danske Bank, 89.5% of Royal Bank of Scotland’s net assets, 60.2% of Lloyds’ net assets and 15.9% of Barclays’ net assets. Those figures exclude bank-to-bank lending, but they indicate how exposed Britain’s banks are to Ireland’s woes (RBS is most exposed, as the owner of a substantial Irish bank, Ulster Bank).


http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters ... nt_fo.html

banks and bankers are going to bring us to are knees
and this is only the start
PIIGS, Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Spain are all in the same boat

here may lie the beginning of the end for the €uro ...
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: British banks have £140 billion exposure to Irish economy
MrStevenRogers wrote:
Quote:
If Ireland is fundamentally incapable of paying off all it owes - which is equivalent to an oppressive 700% of GDP when banking, public sector and private sector debts are added together -some will say it is grotesquely unfair that the cost should fall entirely on taxpayers in Ireland, the European Union and (if IMF money is drawn) the rest of the world.

What would then be triggered would be enormous payments by underwriters of credit default swaps (CDSs), the debt insurance contracts taken out by lenders and speculators. These payments would generate enormous losses for the financial institutions, including banks, which provided the CDS cover.

Even without the CDS loss multiplier, the impact of debt haircuts would be painful for British and international banks. According to the Bank for International Settlements, total lending of non-Irish banks to Irish banks is around $170bn, of which British banks provided $42bn, German banks provided $46bn, US banks $25bn and French banks $21bn.

Which British banks are at risk? Well according to new research by Morgan Stanley, total lending to Ireland’s private and public sectors is equivalent to 92.3% of the net assets of Denmark’s Danske Bank, 89.5% of Royal Bank of Scotland’s net assets, 60.2% of Lloyds’ net assets and 15.9% of Barclays’ net assets. Those figures exclude bank-to-bank lending, but they indicate how exposed Britain’s banks are to Ireland’s woes (RBS is most exposed, as the owner of a substantial Irish bank, Ulster Bank).


http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters ... nt_fo.html

banks and bankers are going to bring us to are knees
and this is only the start
PIIGS, Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Spain are all in the same boat

here may lie the beginning of the end for the €uro ...

The euro will survive if they cast off the banks and allow them to fail. It will eliminate the liabilities of the banks and allow governments to restart. If Ireland defaulted totally then RBS would lose €46 billion and so would the UK tax payer. The fault is of the politicians to step in and bail out the banks before the extent of its losses were known. This is not unique to the UK or Ireland. Every country has done that to an extent. What Ireland should have done is a swedish style banking resolution and put all the bad assets in one bank and create new banks. It could have meant a whole new
banking sector using the branch networks of the old banks and even broken them up still further, to create some competition. Longer term, every European country has a banking sector too large for its needs and until they fail and shrink they will be a burden on its citizens.

This is nothing more than a giant bank bailout, and we should not be doing it. The reason that the UK will do it is to protect the UK banks and the same for Germany and France. Allow the banks to collapse even if it means the end of every bank within europe. All small depositors will be covered and then create new banks. This will solve the problem of bank bonuses as well. Then if Ireland need a bailout then it will be a lot smaller.
Author:  MrStevenRogers [ Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: British banks have £140 billion exposure to Irish economy
i can agree with most but not all

no way are/the/all Govts. going to allow the banks to fail because of 'invested interests' which they themselves hold within the banking sector
it would have been far easier to have paid all accounts holders of failed banks then prop up the banks

but this did not happen they propped up the banks and that is what we have to live and deal with
the amount of bad debt that is held by the whole banking system, world wide, is massive
and the taxpayer has only been used to keep them solvent not administer the banks massive debt

it is now 2/3 years later and the piper is being asked to be paid but we have run out of room to move
the only way now is for national economies to fail/fall with all the knock on effects that will entail ...
Author:  paulzolo [ Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: British banks have £140 billion exposure to Irish economy
By the time this is all over, we’ll find that the actual amount of money in the world adds up to 50p once all the wealth created by debts is eliminated.
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: British banks have £140 billion exposure to Irish economy
I accept that the banks will not be allowed to collapse because it will end the easy jobs market for MPs, the world over. What will happen is that they will be bailed out at the expense of the average taxpayer. The rich tax payer will be barely touched because they will have their money else where. That is why I suspect that revolutions are very likely to be the main outcome of this. There are concerns of a rise of a far right party in Ireland, and it will happen else where as well.
Author:  paulzolo [ Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: British banks have £140 billion exposure to Irish economy
Complete this joke without resorting to stereotyping:

An Englishman, an Irishman and a Scotsman walk into a bank…
Author:  Linux_User [ Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: British banks have £140 billion exposure to Irish economy
paulzolo wrote:
Complete this joke without resorting to stereotyping:

An Englishman, an Irishman and a Scotsman walk into a bank…


The Englishman and the Welshman bail the Scot and the Irishman out. :?
Author:  adidan [ Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: British banks have £140 billion exposure to Irish economy
MrStevenRogers wrote:
banks and bankers are going to bring us to are knees

No, they've already done that, now they're kicking sand in our faces.
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: British banks have £140 billion exposure to Irish economy
adidan wrote:
MrStevenRogers wrote:
banks and bankers are going to bring us to are knees

No, they've already done that, now they're kicking sand in our faces.

What is wrong is that they will still be paying bonuses even though they would collapse if Ireland defaulted. The politicians will not solve this until there is finance reform of the parties. It is too easy for the party to be funded by a few rich people. That should end.
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