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Please sir, can we have our country back?
http://www.x404.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=11845		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  HeatherKay [ Fri Dec 17, 2010 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Please sir, can we have our country back?
A fabulous comment piece over at the Independent.

Johann Hari wrote:
The message to Nicky Wishart and his generation is very clear: don’t get any fancy ideas about being an engaged citizen. Go back to your X-Box and X-Factor, and leave politics to the millionaires in charge.


This is really beginning to make me angry. The mainstream media simply don't want to cover this kind of stuff, preferring to keep us informed about stupid celebrities whose only claim to fame is being famous, or slightly unusual weather conditions, or how many birds some rich footballer has shagged this week.

We need to take our country back. It's time the politicians sat up and listened - if they can hear us from so far up Obama's backside. We voted for them, supposedly. We get to say how this country is run. If we don't like the way they're doing it, they cannot prevent us from saying so.

Cameron was right about one thing. Britain is broken, but it's not the lower orders that are broken: it's the way we're governed that is broken.

...and breathe.
Author:  adidan [ Fri Dec 17, 2010 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Please sir, can we have our country back?
It's about time the revolting peasants revolted. :D
Author:  belchingmatt [ Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Please sir, can we have our country back?
Balanced journalism is something worth demanding as well. :lol:
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Please sir, can we have our country back?
adidan wrote:
It's about time the revolting peasants revolted. :D

I suspect that we will have a few revolutions over the next decade as austerity measures cause the populace to rise up. I suspect Greece will be one of the first. Hungary and a couple of Baltic countries could be serious contenders as well. They might be left wing parties that take over and that will panic the US and UK governments.
Author:  HeatherKay [ Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Please sir, can we have our country back?
belchingmatt wrote:
Balanced journalism is something worth demanding as well. :lol:


There's plenty of that out there already. I'm just highlighting the stuff that worries me and seems to be missed by the mainstream media folks.

If I'm the only one worried by the way the world is going, I suppose I shall just have to find my own way off the planet. I just wanted to point out that if we sit on our bums and do nothing, it won't get better.

We're all in this together, my @rse.
Author:  okenobi [ Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Please sir, can we have our country back?
What would you suggest we do, Heather?
Author:  HeatherKay [ Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Please sir, can we have our country back?
okenobi wrote:
What would you suggest we do, Heather?


I don't know. :lol:

There's a growing undercurrent of ordinary people doing simple acts of civil disobedience.

For example, http://ukuncut.org.uk/ is getting folk all over the country to peacefully occupy Vodafone and Top Shop stores today in protest at the fact these corporations can legally get away with not paying billions of pounds in taxes to this country. There are more protests planned in the coming weeks.

I'm very tempted to forget to complete my tax return for 09-10, save for the facts I can't afford to pay the fines, and it's very unlikely I'll owe any tax anyway. I want to protest, but I am scared to in case it goes wrong and I get into trouble I can't afford to get out of.

So, I guess I'm just an armchair agitator who won't make a bit of difference. The Elites win. :x

(I wish they'd show "V for Vendetta" on the telly again. It would be timely.)
Author:  okenobi [ Sat Dec 18, 2010 10:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Please sir, can we have our country back?
HeatherKay wrote:
okenobi wrote:
What would you suggest we do, Heather?


I don't know. :lol:

There's a growing undercurrent of ordinary people doing simple acts of civil disobedience.

For example, http://ukuncut.org.uk/ is getting folk all over the country to peacefully occupy Vodafone and Top Shop stores today in protest at the fact these corporations can legally get away with not paying billions of pounds in taxes to this country. There are more protests planned in the coming weeks.

I'm very tempted to forget to complete my tax return for 09-10, save for the facts I can't afford to pay the fines, and it's very unlikely I'll owe any tax anyway. I want to protest, but I am scared to in case it goes wrong and I get into trouble I can't afford to get out of.

So, I guess I'm just an armchair agitator who won't make a bit of difference. The Elites win. :x

(I wish they'd show "V for Vendetta" on the telly again. It would be timely.)


Shame, I thought you would inspire me ;)

Civil disobedience is a great tool IMHO, but we're not at critical mass yet and so many people will still be too scared to do anything. The mass peaceful action towards the climax of V is the dream I have for one day taking our country back. If the people were united (instead of fighting of X-Factor and Eastenders) they could not be stopped by any amount of force on the part of the government or armed forces/5-0. There are 65 million of us and just a few hundred thousand of them. But the problem is, what happens after we take our country back?

City states, a la Ancient Greece would be my preferred model, but the change required is too much for Joe Schmo.
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Sat Dec 18, 2010 11:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Please sir, can we have our country back?
Protesting is a great way to show that you are angry, without actually doing anything too aggressive. If you have no intention of causing trouble then why should you be afraid. Simple numbers are what is required to show that you are not happy with the cuts or fact that companies are getting away without paying taxes. I am angry that the banks who have given millions to the political parties are now using that influence to get taxpayer subsidies via low interest rates, which they are not passing on. This is corruption pure and simple and should be banned.
Author:  hifidelity2 [ Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Please sir, can we have our country back?
adidan wrote:
It's about time the revolting peasants revolted. :D


Gets faming torch and starts sharpening pitchfork
Author:  hifidelity2 [ Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Please sir, can we have our country back?
adidan wrote:
It's about time the revolting peasants revolted. :D


Gets flaming torch and starts sharpening pitchfork
Author:  belchingmatt [ Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Please sir, can we have our country back?
hifidelity2 wrote:
adidan wrote:
It's about time the revolting peasants revolted. :D


Gets flaming torch and starts sharpening pitchfork


How many pitchforks do you own? :shock:



;)
Author:  ShockWaffle [ Sun Dec 19, 2010 1:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Please sir, can we have our country back?
okenobi wrote:
But the problem is, what happens after we take our country back?

City states, a la Ancient Greece would be my preferred model, but the change required is too much for Joe Schmo.

Just out of interest, have you ever read Thucydides' Peloponnesian War?
If not, do you have any idea of how decisions were actually made in those states, or the quality of decisions they arrived at (and the relationship between the decision making process and the calamitous consequences of the resultant actions)?

There are many great examples of what happens when you enact democracy of the mob in that book, but I would highlight the fate of the Mytilenians as one of the more important lessons. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mytilenian_Debate
Just understand, this crazy [LIFTED] is how these guys made all their political decisions.

The modern parliamentary structure imposes a certain degree of order on political decision making, and links decisive authority to some degree of responsibility. If you want the system reformed, you should be looking to strengthen those features rather than re-creating the suicidal free-for-all that the Greeks had.
Author:  tombolt [ Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:35 am ]
Post subject:  Please sir, can we have our country back?
okenobi wrote:
City states, a la Ancient Greece would be my preferred model


shagging of young boys ftw!

Only some of the Greek states had democracy btw. Totalitarianism and oligarchy were also popular.
Author:  okenobi [ Sun Dec 19, 2010 9:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Please sir, can we have our country back?
I've not read that book, but I take both of your points. Fact is though, the more "control" you put into the system, the less representative of the people it becomes. Sure Greece wasn't perfect, far from it, but people there took a more active interest and more autonomy than we do now. Also, trade and movement was more free.

But I'm open to other suggestions. Let's hear them. Parliamentary democracy doesn't work IMO. Certainly not ours.
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