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What? I say, what?
http://www.x404.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=12062		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  HeatherKay [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:  What? I say, what?
In their infinite wisdom, the previous Labour government awarded the contract for the 2011 census to Lockheed Martin for £150 million.

The Guardian wrote:
Even if we ignore the fact that Lockheed Martin sits at No 1 on the Pogo Federal Contractor Misconduct database, with more than 50 alleged cases of corruption, fraud, bribery, environmental damage and discrimination, there's worse to come. As a US-owned company, under the post-9/11 USA Patriot Act, Lockheed Martin can be forced to hand over any private data in its possession to the US government and/or the CIA. It doesn't make the government's promises to keep our data safe sound quite so reassuring.


Linky.

What the ... ? :shock: :x :evil:

I used to support the census, which has come round every decade since 1801. It's been a boon to genealogists and historians over the years, but if my personal information could possibly be passed on to another government's secret service without my say I will be mightily peeved. I shall actively pursue legal methods to avoid adding info to this year's census.
Author:  hifidelity2 [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What? I say, what?
HeatherKay wrote:
I shall actively pursue legal methods to avoid adding info to this year's census.


Keep us informed
Author:  rustybucket [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What? I say, what?
From the ONS site:

Quote:
Concerns expressed about the possibility of the US Patriot Act being used by US intelligence services have been addressed by a number of additional contractual and operational safeguards. These arrangements have been put in place to ensure to that US authorities are unable to access census data.

Existing law already prevents the disclosure of census data – it is a criminal offence to disclose personal census data and is punishable by a fine and/or up to two years in prison.

All census data is owned by ONS and all of the legal undertakings of confidentiality of personal Census information will apply to both ONS and any contractors.

All census employees and contractors working on the census sign a declaration of confidentiality to guarantee their understanding and compliance with the law.

All staff who have access to the full census data set in the operational data centre will work for ONS.

Contractual arrangements ensure that only sub-contractors registered and based in the UK and either UK or EU owned will have access to any personal census data.

Staff with access to the full census data set or substantial parts of it will have security clearance to handle material classified as ‘Secret’ under the UK Government’s classifications.

The prime contractor is Lockheed Martin UK Ltd. Additional specialist services will be provided by Cable & Wireless, Logica, UK Data Capture, bss, Steria, Polestar, Oracle and Royal Mail. Lockheed Martin UK will design the processing systems for ONS using its expertise and past experience. The day to day running of operational services will be provided by the consortium of specialist service providers. All of these specialist subcontractors are registered and owned in the UK or elsewhere in the EU.

This contractual structure means that no US companies will have any access to any personal census data.

No Lockheed Martin staff (from either the US parent or UK company) will have access to any personal census data.

All data will be processed in the UK and remain in the UK.
Author:  jonlumb [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What? I say, what?
Steria are part of the census program? That's not making me optimistic.
Author:  rustybucket [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What? I say, what?
jonlumb wrote:
Steria are part of the census program? That's not making me optimistic.

... and Oracle as well.

:shock:
Author:  HeatherKay [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What? I say, what?
Here's the FAQ page at the census site:
http://2011.census.gov.uk/My-census/Fre ... estions#11

Organisations can give me as many assurances as they like that my data is secure, or will only be processed by blind monkeys, or whatever. I am no longer reassured by anything the bunch of cretins running this country have to say.

Incidentally, if you're absent on the day of the census, you still have to fill in the form unless your whole household is away for six months or more. Failure to fill in the form correctly is a criminal offence, punishable by a £1000 fine.

Nice.

Perhaps it's time we were able to opt out of government-sponsored snooping, no matter what benefits it should give to society.
Author:  timark_uk [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What? I say, what?
We haven't had the call of 'Heather for PM' for a while, have we?

Mark
Author:  jonbwfc [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What? I say, what?
HeatherKay wrote:
Perhaps it's time we were able to opt out of government-sponsored snooping, no matter what benefits it should give to society.

I'm somewhat amused by the notion of government snooping that had an opt-out.

Jon
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What? I say, what?
The census will not be run any cheaper by having an external organisation doing it. With the numbers of unemployed they could be given some work for a few months to help them.
Author:  l3v1ck [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What? I say, what?
I can see my missus and I having an argument on what religion to put down for our son.
I said I didn't mind her raising him as a catholic like her, but since she's made no effort to do so as she's fed up with the church, I think no religion would be more suitable.
Author:  rustybucket [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What? I say, what?
l3v1ck wrote:
I can see my missus and I having an argument on what religion to put down for our son.
I said I didn't mind her raising him as a catholic like her, but since she's made no effort to do so as she's fed up with the church, I think no religion would be more suitable.

How old is the boy? Is he old enough to ask?

It's a tough one and no mistake. I don't envy you on that one.
Author:  ShockWaffle [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What? I say, what?
What possible interest could the American government have in any of our census entries? I recommend finding more important things to be aghast and disgusted about.
Author:  ProfessorF [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What? I say, what?
I'd have thought the results of the census are fairly widely reported anyway, aren't they?
The US have a whole site about theirs - http://www.census.gov/
Of course, we have no way of knowing if what they're reporting on it is the truth, but then that's like so much in politics.
Author:  rustybucket [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What? I say, what?
ProfessorF wrote:
I'd have thought the results of the census are fairly widely reported anyway, aren't they?

The results, yes. It's the principle of foreign/commercial access to individual records that's the concern here. However as the ONS website notes, such an intrusion would be illegal anyway.

Which makes it all okay then because, when it comes to operational matters, the US security agencies hold the rule of law in such esteem.

Hang on.......
Author:  belchingmatt [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What? I say, what?
rustybucket wrote:
l3v1ck wrote:
I can see my missus and I having an argument on what religion to put down for our son.
I said I didn't mind her raising him as a catholic like her, but since she's made no effort to do so as she's fed up with the church, I think no religion would be more suitable.

How old is the boy? Is he old enough to ask?

It's a tough one and no mistake. I don't envy you on that one.


Can you put down that he is too young to respond?
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