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IT graduates should "work for free" to gain experience
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Author:  Amnesia10 [ Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:  IT graduates should "work for free" to gain experience

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/enterprise/ ... experience

Quote:
A recruitment expert has warned that young computing graduates should try to gain experience “by any means possible” if it will help them enter the workplace.

Last week it was revealed that the UK needed to recruit 110,000 more IT workers over the next year. It's a positive figure for the industry, but one that conflicts with anecdotal and statistical data that suggests Computer Science graduates struggle to find employment when they leave college.

“At the moment it's still very competitive and very difficult for raw graduates,” said Richard Nott, website director for CWJobs. “The big employers have not been doing the traditional graduate intake because they have wanted people with experience who can hit the ground running.

“It's a Catch 22 because even with a good computer science degree if you have no experience it's very hard to find a job, although you can't get experience without a job.”

While the idea of working for low or no pay might be unattractive for graduates with ballooning student loans to pay off, Nott suggested they might have to take whatever productive employment they could find in order to build up portfolio, rather than waiting for the right jobs.

What would many here think if they were new graduates?

Author:  Spreadie [ Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IT graduates should "work for free" to gain experience

Yes, graduates have no life, no bills and don't need to eat.

Sounds more like a plan to create a tier of slave labour for IT firms.

I don't think graduates should expect to walk into a fantastic salary straight off the bat, but they should be paid something for their efforts.

Author:  Amnesia10 [ Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IT graduates should "work for free" to gain experience

Spreadie wrote:
Yes, graduates have no life, no bills and don't need to eat.

Sounds more like a plan to create a tier of slave labour for IT firms.

I don't think graduates should expect to walk into a fantastic salary straight off the bat, but they should be paid something for their efforts.

I agree. In fact I would like to see internships banned as a form of slavery, even if chosen. The real choice is unemployment or internship. Only those with rich parents can afford to move to another area to take up such an internship. Even if you have a relevant degree, you cannot expect a high salary if you have no experience. Also even if it is just a living wage that might make things easier for graduates.

Author:  Linux_User [ Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IT graduates should "work for free" to gain experience

Spreadie wrote:
Yes, graduates have no life, no bills and don't need to eat.

Sounds more like a plan to create a tier of slave labour for IT firms.

+1

Author:  forquare1 [ Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IT graduates should "work for free" to gain experience

One thing that sets me apart from other graduates is that I went and did an Industrial Year - A year out, as part of my degree, that gave me experience of my chosen industry. I then managed to get a summer casual job with the MOD (at last, only been applying for the last six years!).
The few places that interviewed me last summer really liked the fact I had experience.

More undergrads should be encouraged to go out and do an IY, I've spoken to so many that didn't want to do an IY because they feared it would effect their overall grade (due to forgetting how to learn), or because they didn't think experience was relevant in getting a job.

I know many mates who graduated then spent the next six to eighteen months living at home off their parents because they couldn't find their dream job...If you can do that then you can work for free, or still you can spend that valuable time working on relevant open source projects, because a future employer will be able to see the benefit in that too.

Author:  Nick [ Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IT graduates should "work for free" to gain experience

I have worked on a voluntary basis for two months at a local school during the summer break between the first and second years of my degree.

It did give me some experience, and a reference, which is great.

I am now 6 months into a placement year (like forquare1 did) and I'm sure that the reference and previous experience helped me get the job. It certainly gave me something to talk about and refer to in the interview.

Author:  ProfessorF [ Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IT graduates should "work for free" to gain experience

Sadly it's not a new thing, lots of industries do this sort of thing.
We rely on volunteers at work for various things, and whilst not the same, there are parallels.
Certainly, those who have done voluntary work, and have the relevant degrees (a masters would be preferred) are the pick for a £14k job in the education dept. The last vacancy had about 300 applicants.
That said, there's an awful lot of naivety in the students we do get volunteering with us with regard to their prospects upon leaving Uni.
And, given the present economical climate, there's surely more to come.

Author:  l3v1ck [ Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IT graduates should "work for free" to gain experience

The idea of the minimum wage was to stop companies ripping off people who worked for them.
This seems to be the modern way for them to get round that law, ie pay them nothing at all.

I hate it.

Author:  Amnesia10 [ Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IT graduates should "work for free" to gain experience

Nick wrote:
I have worked on a voluntary basis for two months at a local school during the summer break between the first and second years of my degree.

It did give me some experience, and a reference, which is great.

I am now 6 months into a placement year (like forquare1 did) and I'm sure that the reference and previous experience helped me get the job. It certainly gave me something to talk about and refer to in the interview.

Yes but these placements are not the same as working for free. You would have been paid, maybe not a lot but enough to get by. I do think that more placements would be a very good idea. When I was doing my accountancy training far too many had no actual experience of real business so did not understand economics.

Author:  EddArmitage [ Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IT graduates should "work for free" to gain experience

I don't think I'd ever work for free. I've always worked over the summers, and have completed a placement year. I've a couple of job offers lined up so I'm not too too worried at present. I wasn't particularly aware of a shortage of job grads, as I think our dept has had everyone (who looked for employment) employed within 6 months of graduating for the last five or six years.

Author:  Amnesia10 [ Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IT graduates should "work for free" to gain experience

EddArmitage wrote:
I don't think I'd ever work for free. I've always worked over the summers, and have completed a placement year. I've a couple of job offers lined up so I'm not too too worried at present. I wasn't particularly aware of a shortage of job grads, as I think our dept has had everyone (who looked for employment) employed within 6 months of graduating for the last five or six years.

When I was at uni I had a friend who graduated and it was a very different situation then. Many were still looking months later.

Author:  jonbwfc [ Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IT graduates should "work for free" to gain experience

Let's face it, I'm a graduate (in IT) and I have a choice - I can go work in IT for nothing, or I can get a job stacking shelves in Tescos for at least minimum wage and possibly not have to live in a cardboard box on the street and eat out of bins. Hmm... tough choice...

Fantastic way to use the resources we've spent three years educating.

You idiotic bunch of simpletons.

Jon

Author:  JJW009 [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: IT graduates should "work for free" to gain experience

If I was offered great experience for no money, I'd take it if I could afford it.

My university education didn't really help a lot with my employment; then I was lucky enough to get an apprenticeship for a very low wage - less than shelf stacking. I learned a lot. The problem was they kept me on that wage even when I was well qualified, until I found the balls to actually get a different job. Ironically my new employer went bust (not my fault!) and I went back to my first employer on double the salary for the same job :lol:

Author:  Linux_User [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: IT graduates should "work for free" to gain experience

JJW009 wrote:
I'd take it if I could afford it.

And therein lies the problem for most graduates.

Author:  JJW009 [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: IT graduates should "work for free" to gain experience

Linux_User wrote:
JJW009 wrote:
I'd take it if I could afford it.

And therein lies the problem for most graduates.

It's not a new problem. People with money can buy experience; that has always been the way.

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