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Mortgage lenders penalising couples with children
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Author:  Amnesia10 [ Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Mortgage lenders penalising couples with children

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/pers ... ldren.html

Quote:
Mortgage lenders are penalising home owners with children by reducing the amount they can borrow. The crackdown could potentially prevent them from switching to cheaper deals when interest rates rise.
Many banks and building societies have tightened their affordability criteria in light of the Financial Services Authority's post-credit-crunch review of the mortgage market. But it has emerged that families with children are being hit hard.
Parents will now usually qualify for a smaller mortgage than similar couples without children. Depending on the lender, the reduction might be about 10pc, but could be as high as nearly 20pc. This has triggered fears that parents may not be able to switch to fixed-rate and other competitive deals to protect the family home when interest rates finally begin to rise.
Carol Begbie of Female Independent, a mortgage broker, said: "Lenders have always asked about dependants when assessing the ability of applicants to repay a loan. But having children didn't actually reduce the amount you could borrow. Now it does and this is becoming a significant problem.

I can see this becoming a serious problem.

Author:  belchingmatt [ Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mortgage lenders penalising couples with children

Insurance companies penalise single, young and especially male drivers. Welcome to the real world, except that having children is a choice and already subsidised.

Author:  Amnesia10 [ Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mortgage lenders penalising couples with children

belchingmatt wrote:
Insurance companies penalise single, young and especially male drivers. Welcome to the real world, except that having children is a choice and already subsidised.

I was thinking that it might be more down to evictions. It might be considerably harder if kids are involved. Having a partner can be even more financially draining than kids.

Author:  jonbwfc [ Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mortgage lenders penalising couples with children

Amnesia10 wrote:
I can see this becoming a serious problem.

At least in comparison to the consequences of lending people money they can't afford to repay as soon as the interest rate climbs by a small increment I don't see it as a problem. There are plenty of places up for rent round my way, hardly any for sale. If you can't afford to buy, rent. That's what I did. There is a peculiarly British idea that you have a 'right' to own your home. Firstly, you don't. You have a right to shelter but that's a mile away from owning a property. Secondly, if you have a mortgage, you don't actually own it anyway, you're just renting it off a bank rather than landlord (except of course the bank has virtually none of the legal responsibilities a landlord does).

When I took out a mortgage on my place, the maximum any bank would give me was three times my income (which was a lot less than it is now, as well). My brother bought a house about five years ago and his mortgage was four times his and his wife's joint incomes. I'm fairly comfortable with my payments, he's bricking it every time the base rate rises by half a percent. Which of us has a 'serious problem'?

If we don't give people outlandish mortgages, they won't buy houses at outlandish prices. Thus the price of property will fall and lower income buyers (and those being sensible about the amount of money they borrow) will be able to afford to mortgage a property. I don't see how any of this is a problem at all.

Jon

Author:  Amnesia10 [ Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mortgage lenders penalising couples with children

jonbwfc wrote:
Amnesia10 wrote:
I can see this becoming a serious problem.

At least in comparison to the consequences of lending people money they can't afford to repay as soon as the interest rate climbs by a small increment I don't see it as a problem. There are plenty of places up for rent round my way, hardly any for sale. If you can't afford to buy, rent. That's what I did. There is a peculiarly British idea that you have a 'right' to own your home. Firstly, you don't. You have a right to shelter but that's a mile away from owning a property. Secondly, if you have a mortgage, you don't actually own it anyway, you're just renting it off a bank rather than landlord (except of course the bank has virtually none of the legal responsibilities a landlord does).

I am not disagreeing with you. The problem is that with out children people will have to save a lot more to provide for their pensions and possible care. It was that aspect I was thinking of. It is like children are a huge extra liability. Extra heating will be minimal, Council tax would not be affected. Phone bills could be higher but only if you do not have a sensible call plan that the kids stick to. Landline calls can be free. I actually think that the reasoning is more as a way of raising margins on mortgages. I totally agree about the renting from a bank but if you tell people that they will not listen.

jonbwfc wrote:
When I took out a mortgage on my place, the maximum any bank would give me was three times my income (which was a lot less than it is now, as well). My brother bought a house about five years ago and his mortgage was four times his and his wife's joint incomes. I'm fairly comfortable with my payments, he's bricking it every time the base rate rises by half a percent. Which of us has a 'serious problem'?

That is why I think mortgages should have a maximum loan to income ratio. Banks told the government that things were different now and we were under a new paradigm. Which has all being shown to be crap. House prices will fall and those with income multiples of 3 or less will cope better than those that took out loans with much higher multiples.

jonbwfc wrote:
If we don't give people outlandish mortgages, they won't buy houses at outlandish prices. Thus the price of property will fall and lower income buyers (and those being sensible about the amount of money they borrow) will be able to afford to mortgage a property. I don't see how any of this is a problem at all.

I was thinking that a mortgage drought is excellent. As long as the new tighter rules are maintained. If they relax them in future then we will have the same problem with property bubbles.

Author:  l3v1ck [ Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mortgage lenders penalising couples with children

The biggest issue will be for first time buyers who are just finishing their first 2/3 year fixed deal. A lot of first time buyers don't have children when they buy, but have them shortly afterwards. It won't be an issue for people who've have their mortgage for a while as they'll have more equity, so won't need to borrow as much when they renew.
I can see more first time buyers going for longer term fixed deals as a results of this (5 years or longer if they're available).

Author:  mikepgood [ Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mortgage lenders penalising couples with children

News to those who don't have them yet...CHILDREN ARE.....EXPENSIVE


Been there, still doing that!

Author:  jonbwfc [ Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mortgage lenders penalising couples with children

mikepgood wrote:
News to those who don't have them yet...CHILDREN ARE.....EXPENSIVE

Yes, we know, that's why we don't have them yet :lol:

Author:  Amnesia10 [ Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mortgage lenders penalising couples with children

They do not have to be expensive. Yes if you buy everything new and go over the top. But second hand baby clothes are perfectly fine. Reusable nappies can reduce the costs. You just need to be organised. Loads of people on benefits do it and they do not get any more other than child benefit.

Author:  tombolt [ Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:25 am ]
Post subject:  Mortgage lenders penalising couples with children

We use reusable nappies, breast feed and got most of our clothes and kit second hand, and as a result, haven't really noticed any great rise in our living costs.

However, I suspect she will start costing a lot more as she gets older.

Author:  Amnesia10 [ Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mortgage lenders penalising couples with children

tombolt wrote:
However, I suspect she will start costing a lot more as she gets older.

Yes but invariably families adjust to their spending to their incomes. People cope.

Author:  paulzolo [ Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mortgage lenders penalising couples with children

belchingmatt wrote:
Insurance companies penalise single, young and especially male drivers. Welcome to the real world, except that having children is a choice and already subsidised.


I notices last year that they started asking the question "Will you be carrying children in the car?". I was wondering what the motive behind that was. Are parents more likely to be distracted by a kid throwing a toy at them from the back seat?

Author:  belchingmatt [ Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mortgage lenders penalising couples with children

paulzolo wrote:
belchingmatt wrote:
Insurance companies penalise single, young and especially male drivers. Welcome to the real world, except that having children is a choice and already subsidised.


I notices last year that they started asking the question "Will you be carrying children in the car?". I was wondering what the motive behind that was. Are parents more likely to be distracted by a kid throwing a toy at them from the back seat?


Really? It's been a long time but they used to just ask if it was for SDP, business or both.

Author:  Amnesia10 [ Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mortgage lenders penalising couples with children

paulzolo wrote:
belchingmatt wrote:
Insurance companies penalise single, young and especially male drivers. Welcome to the real world, except that having children is a choice and already subsidised.


I notices last year that they started asking the question "Will you be carrying children in the car?". I was wondering what the motive behind that was. Are parents more likely to be distracted by a kid throwing a toy at them from the back seat?

Probably because you will take the kids on the school run which is probably the most dangerous route of all. Will parents have to muzzle the kids and put them in cages now? ;)

Author:  JJW009 [ Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mortgage lenders penalising couples with children

Amnesia10 wrote:
Probably because you will take the kids on the school run which is probably the most dangerous route of all. Will parents have to muzzle the kids and put them in cages now? ;)

It's true; the number of kids killed or maimed on the way to school is over 9000 higher than it was just 30 years ago when everyone walked or took the bus. Most of them are run over by their friend's mum's Chelsea Tractor.

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