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UK government to press for European Court reform
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Author:  pcernie [ Sun Feb 20, 2011 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  UK government to press for European Court reform

The government is to press for the European Court of Human Rights to be reformed, says the justice secretary.

Ken Clarke said the government would press for changes to the way the court operated when the UK takes over the chairmanship of the Council of Europe.

Speaking on the Andrew Marr show, he said the European Convention of Human Rights would continue to be adhered to.

Last week it was announced that a commission would be set up to examine a possible British Bill of Rights.

The commission, which will be jointly chaired by Mr Clarke and Deputy Leader Nick Clegg, will look at whether the UK Bill of Rights could overrule the European Convention of Human Rights.

"The government's policy is to investigate a case for a British Bill of Rights and whether that could improve the relationship between Strasbourg and here," said Mr Clarke.
'Improve relationship'

The move follows a row over votes for prisoners and the sex offenders register.

The European Court of Human Rights has decreed that it is illegal for prisoners to be refused the vote.

In response, MPs voted to keep the ban however the House of Commons' decision is not binding, but could put pressure on ministers to go against the Strasbourg court's decision.

The Supreme Court has recently ruled that sex offenders in England and Wales could appeal against having to register with the police of life.

The UK court ruled that the lack of a review was incompatible with the European Convention on Human Rights.

"We are considering the debate we had in the House of Commons and considering what the legal position is but everybody - the prime minister and everybody else - has said we will of course comply with the law," said Mr Clarke.

"It would be startling if we had a British government which said we aren't going to comply with legal judgements."
'Range of opinions'

But the justice secretary said questions remained over the way the European Court behaved and should be addressed.

He said: "How far does it go into things which legislators and national courts can determine? Are we certain that the court operates properly - it's got an enormous number of judges - could it handle its case load quicker?"

He said when the UK gets the chairmanship in November, it would take the lead in reforming the court and establishing the relationship between national courts, national parliaments and the European Court.

However, Mr Clarke said, there was no question of Britain withdrawing from the European Convention on Human Rights.

He said: "We're a coalition government with a range of opinions and we have a clearly negotiated policy.

"Only the Greek colonels have ever repudiated the convention on human rights."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12517926

Good :)

Author:  Linux_User [ Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: UK government to press for European Court reform

What's good about it?

It smacks to me of a government unhappy with the decision of the courts, which is wrong. Can you imagine if the US Government had decided that, actually, it didn't like the Supreme Court's rulings on slavery and equality, so they were going to ignore them and reform the Supreme Court instead? :?

The rights of the individual are, in a lot of cases, advanced and protected by the courts - not elected governments.

Author:  pcernie [ Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: UK government to press for European Court reform

I'm thinking getting a bit more clarity (even just on our own position) would be good, and there might be an olive branch to some with Clegg and Clarke looking at it, depending on that person/group's view :|

Author:  bobbdobbs [ Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: UK government to press for European Court reform

Linux_User wrote:
The rights of the individual are, in a lot of cases, advanced and protected by the courts - not elected governments.
Which must be balanced by the rights of the group. Both must be in balance for both to work.

Author:  Linux_User [ Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: UK government to press for European Court reform

bobbdobbs wrote:
Linux_User wrote:
The rights of the individual are, in a lot of cases, advanced and protected by the courts - not elected governments.
Which must be balanced by the rights of the group. Both must be in balance for both to work.

Who is "the group"? There are only individuals. If what a person does does not harm another, they shouldn't be prevented from doing it.

All other criminals have the right to a review of their case, even murderers, why should sexual offences be any different?

Author:  bobbdobbs [ Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: UK government to press for European Court reform

Linux_User wrote:
bobbdobbs wrote:
Linux_User wrote:
The rights of the individual are, in a lot of cases, advanced and protected by the courts - not elected governments.
Which must be balanced by the rights of the group. Both must be in balance for both to work.

Who is "the group"? There are only individuals. If what a person does does not harm another, they shouldn't be prevented from doing it.

All other criminals have the right to a review of their case, even murderers, why should sexual offences be any different?

The group is society as a whole. Without there being responsibilities to balance the individuals rights then we are on sure fired spiral to anarchy.
Murderers may have a review but are let out on licence which can be revoked and taken back into custody. Sexual offences should not be treated differently, but the inclusion on the sexual offenders list should be mandatory and non removable.

Author:  jonbwfc [ Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: UK government to press for European Court reform

bobbdobbs wrote:
Linux_User wrote:
Who is "the group"? There are only individuals. If what a person does does not harm another, they shouldn't be prevented from doing it.

All other criminals have the right to a review of their case, even murderers, why should sexual offences be any different?

The group is society as a whole. Without there being responsibilities to balance the individuals rights then we are on sure fired spiral to anarchy.
Murderers may have a review but are let out on licence which can be revoked and taken back into custody. Sexual offences should not be treated differently, but the inclusion on the sexual offenders list should be mandatory and non removable.

Surely the obvious thing to do is change the name from 'register' to 'record'. A record is a list of history, it's logically incongruous to change it. I think it would be fair to say that someone has a right to a review of any restrictions placed upon them - after they've served their sentence and after an extended period beyond which they had committed no further offences AND after further examination (which if proved wrong would open the examiner to legal sanction, so they'll damn well get it right) - but their name would never be removed from the record. So a convicted offender can 'prove' themselves safe and effectively be free but the fact they have offended would continue to be on the public record, available for anyone who can show sufficient cause to need to know.

Jon

Author:  pcernie [ Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: UK government to press for European Court reform

Lord Woolf warning over UK Bill of Rights

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12522239

Author:  Linux_User [ Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: UK government to press for European Court reform

There is no "stark" choice for the UK, there is only an "insane" choice.

If we left, we would be joining Belarus as the only countries on the entire European continent who were not members. That's not exactly a great club to be in. Even Russia is a signatory.

Furthermore, being signed up to the ECHR is a pre-condition to membership of the European Union, an organisation Britain can ill-afford to leave.

Author:  bobbdobbs [ Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: UK government to press for European Court reform

Linux_User wrote:
If we left, we would be joining Belarus as the only countries on the entire European continent who were not members. That's not exactly a great club to be in. Even Russia is a signatory.

..and we all know Russia is a great land for the upholding of HR :lol:
So we just follow the Russian model, keep being signed up and then completely ignore any ruling we dont like.

Author:  Linux_User [ Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: UK government to press for European Court reform

bobbdobbs wrote:
Linux_User wrote:
If we left, we would be joining Belarus as the only countries on the entire European continent who were not members. That's not exactly a great club to be in. Even Russia is a signatory.

..and we all know Russia is a great land for the upholding of HR :lol:
So we just follow the Russian model, keep being signed up and then completely ignore any ruling we dont like.

Do you actually know that Russia ignores the rulings?

Author:  bobbdobbs [ Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: UK government to press for European Court reform

Linux_User wrote:
bobbdobbs wrote:
Linux_User wrote:
If we left, we would be joining Belarus as the only countries on the entire European continent who were not members. That's not exactly a great club to be in. Even Russia is a signatory.

..and we all know Russia is a great land for the upholding of HR :lol:
So we just follow the Russian model, keep being signed up and then completely ignore any ruling we dont like.

Do you actually know that Russia ignores the rulings?

well they are ignoring it in relationship to vasily Aleksanyan. Extrajudical killing in Chechyna, the banning of gay marches the just keeps growing. with 217 rulings in 2010

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