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Buying a console does not give 'unrestricted ownership'
http://www.x404.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=12728		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  pcernie [ Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Buying a console does not give 'unrestricted ownership'
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/29 ... es-braben/

I'll do what I like, thanks, and your argument might have been a lot stronger if you weren't clouding it with the second-hand games market BS...
Author:  paulzolo [ Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Buying a console does not give 'unrestricted ownership'
pcernie wrote:
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/290745/hacked-off-with-ps3-hacks-buying-console-does-not-give-unrestricted-ownership-argues-braben/

I'll do what I like, thanks, and your argument might have been a lot stronger if you weren't clouding it with the second-hand games market BS...


So, Braben, where’s that Elite sequel you were meant to be doing? You know the decent one. The one that will make those of us who phoned up AcornSoft to pre-order the original proud? I’d suggest you STFU pontificating and get back to that keyboard and finish the damn game.
Author:  james016 [ Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Buying a console does not give 'unrestricted ownership'
paulzolo wrote:
pcernie wrote:
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/290745/hacked-off-with-ps3-hacks-buying-console-does-not-give-unrestricted-ownership-argues-braben/

I'll do what I like, thanks, and your argument might have been a lot stronger if you weren't clouding it with the second-hand games market BS...


So, Braben, where’s that Elite sequel you were meant to be doing? You know the decent one. The one that will make those of us who phoned up AcornSoft to pre-order the original proud? I’d suggest you STFU pontificating and get back to that keyboard and finish the damn game.


This. Where the hell is Elite 4?
Author:  cloaked_wolf [ Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Buying a console does not give 'unrestricted ownership'
Quote:
"The equivalent is adjusting the paperwork and registration number on your second hand car to get a new warranty and free maintenance out of your garage.

Umm, no. What it's the equivalent of is detailing a car, replacing all of the worn parts and putting it in brand new condition. Except you're then trying to stop people selling their cars and want us to buy a new one each time.

I agree that once you've bought the hardware, you should be able to use it however you wish.
Author:  rustybucket [ Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Buying a console does not give 'unrestricted ownership'
cloaked_wolf wrote:
I agree that once you've bought the hardware, you should be able to use it however you wish.

I disagree vehemently.

Contained within a console are hardware & software and their associated service access & intellectual property.

When you purchase a console you purchase the nuts and bolts hardware i.e. they become your property. However at no point do you buy the software, service access or intellectual property rights - you use them under license. Consequently end-users cannot moan if they lose service access because they break the terms of the licence.

If you don't like the licence, don't buy the product. No sympathy from me.
Author:  paulzolo [ Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Buying a console does not give 'unrestricted ownership'
rustybucket wrote:
cloaked_wolf wrote:
I agree that once you've bought the hardware, you should be able to use it however you wish.

I disagree vehemently.

Contained within a console are hardware & software and their associated service access & intellectual property.

When you purchase a console you purchase the nuts and bolts hardware i.e. they become your property. However at no point do you buy the software, service access or intellectual property rights - you use them under license. Consequently end-users cannot moan if they lose service access because they break the terms of the licence.

If you don't like the licence, don't buy the product. No sympathy from me.


Actually, your car will come with software, and that controls the engine, so doing a retune would involve hacking that. The motor industry is wanting to adopt the same position as the console manufacturers. If you tinker, you lose.
Author:  ProfessorF [ Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Buying a console does not give 'unrestricted ownership'
paulzolo wrote:
Actually, your car will come with software, and that controls the engine, so doing a retune would involve hacking that. The motor industry is wanting to adopt the same position as the console manufacturers. If you tinker, you lose.


The motor industry already do this - if you stick a third party map on your car, while it's under warranty, you lose the warranty. And personally, I see nothing wrong with that.
It's like anything, really, in that as soon as your break that proverbial label saying 'warranty void' you're on your own as you've actively chosen to go down that path.
Author:  paulzolo [ Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Buying a console does not give 'unrestricted ownership'
ProfessorF wrote:
paulzolo wrote:
Actually, your car will come with software, and that controls the engine, so doing a retune would involve hacking that. The motor industry is wanting to adopt the same position as the console manufacturers. If you tinker, you lose.


The motor industry already do this - if you stick a third party map on your car, while it's under warranty, you lose the warranty. And personally, I see nothing wrong with that.
It's like anything, really, in that as soon as your break that proverbial label saying 'warranty void' you're on your own as you've actively chosen to go down that path.


There is talk about making ECU flashing illegal and/or an MOT failure. That akes it beyond a warranty voidance issue into the same territory as tinkering with a console.
Author:  paulzolo [ Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Buying a console does not give 'unrestricted ownership'
rustybucket wrote:
cloaked_wolf wrote:
I agree that once you've bought the hardware, you should be able to use it however you wish.

I disagree vehemently.

Contained within a console are hardware & software and their associated service access & intellectual property.

When you purchase a console you purchase the nuts and bolts hardware i.e. they become your property. However at no point do you buy the software, service access or intellectual property rights - you use them under license. Consequently end-users cannot moan if they lose service access because they break the terms of the licence.

If you don't like the licence, don't buy the product. No sympathy from me.


I get that argument in the light of a console such as a Megadrive or a PlayStation One where the sole purpose of the hardware was to play games supplied on a fixed form of distribution.

However, current consoles, especially thePS3, are more than a games machine. They blur the lines between computers and consoles. Beneath the form factor and the multi-paged software licence agreements, there is little in terms of hardware to differentiate the console from a regular computer. I can install software - myPS3 does much that my Mac can do. It can organise my photos, play videos (even edit & upload them if I want), browse the web. Until recently, I coudeen install Linux if I wanted to so it became, well, a computer.

Sony has changed the system, and decided that if you don't comply, you lose PSN rights, and indeed any kind of online access rights. I get the former, but not the latter.

Thing is all comouters come with EULAs which contain anti piracy clauses. Even my TV came with an EULA. I ask you - a TV with a software license agreement.
Author:  l3v1ck [ Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Buying a console does not give 'unrestricted ownership'
The software may well be licensed, but the hardware is owned.
If you want to wipe the software that comes with it and use something else on the hardware, you can. End of!
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