Yes, they were legal, and now we now the ramifications of them and there ill effects, they are now illegal. Just because it could push smoking underground is no reason to legalise it.

I think we all agree that smoking in front of a child is plain wrong, and the parents should be punished in some way. What is strange is some of these people would never smack their kid and would kick off if they saw anyone do it, yet they have no problem inflicting passive smoking on them.

The problem I see is that we cannot and morally shouldn't deny health care to smoking related illnesses. But the non-smoking tax payer should not have to foot the cost of people who willingly and knowingly put their health at risk and deliberately. The revenue from tax from tobacco goes to the NHS yes, but the government are at fault for allowing that revenue stream to become a dependency. All this stop smoking campaign seems to be akin to weaning themselves of the tax benefits from tobacco.

I fail to see what positives can be taken from smoking.

Get rid of the NHS then, let people carry the burden of their own healthcare. I don't see why I should be restricted in my activities in order to fund an outdated institution (which in future is going to turn down life-saving treatments in order to save money). We can do what the French do and just have basic medical insurance for everybody, and then people can top it up as needed.

And to be honest, people who add an extra burden to the NHS through smoking etc ALREADY pay for it through increased tax contributions. The revenue generated by smoking and drinking far outweighs the cost the NHS spends on related illnesses. Although if you're going to start taxing people for having illnesses, then you better start a Cancer tax etc.

The day that we ditch the NHS is the day I hop on a plane out of here. I already explained about the tax from tobacco, just because more money is alleged to be made from tobacco is no explanation why it should be kept legal.

No one generally needs to top up their health care because the basic care is actually rather good in France. The NHS is one of the things I am proud of living here, yes it needs improving, no question there, but charging people to stay alive and maintain a good standard of living is barbaric.

I don't want to get rid of the NHS (I despise the idea of people dying or suffering because they can't afford the medicine/care) however having said that, I also despise the idea of the NHS refusing to treat people because of what they do (be it smoke, drink or take drugs).

I agree, but I think it's wrong that people knowingly put their health at risk also knowing that in the long term they will need to use the NHS costing it money that could be spent elsewhere unnecessarily. Denying treatment is out of the question.

Completely agree. Smokers pay enough taxes to pay for private healthcare for all of their admissions and smoking related illnesses.





TBH I hate this entire smoking restrictions. It's like a smoking ban but slow, taking decades. Either they should allow smoking or ban it outright. As for banning, they've banned recreational drugs too.

Just wonder when alcohol's gonna be on the hitlist.

Anyone smoking in the same room as young child should be "educated", perhaps with a good slapping. I'm not sure making them criminals would achieve anything except the unnecessary suffering of the family.



The health care in France is excellent, but you do need private "top-up" insurance unless you're wealthy.

When you're treated, only a percentage of the bill is paid by the state. Your insurance pays the rest. This percentage varies according to the treatment.

Life threatening illness is 100% covered, for example Cancer treatments.
A broken leg might be 80% covered, depending on how you broke it.
Minor treatment is usually 50% covered.

Since the treatments can be very expensive, even just 20% can be a daunting bill. Curiously though, the cost of care in France is less than half of that in the NHS despite the short waiting lists and excellent service.

</off topic>

i smoke while driving, i smoke while driving with the kids in the car
i smoke at home, i smoke at home with the kids in the house

i don't go too pubs any more as i cant smoke, i drink at home
i don't go to eat out any more i cant smoke, i get takeaways
i don't visit any body's else's house/home if i cant smoke

my kids are well dressed are well feed and have at there disposal all manner of things so they can do well at school which they do they have two loving parents who do the best they can for them

but we (the wife and myself) must be complete assholes because we both smoke
are kids should be taken into care and the welfare state should raise them because we are bad parents

i smoke i will continue to smoke and nobody will be able to stop me smoking
till death do us and my fags part …

*slap*

Smoking in the car probably isn't so bad if the kids are in the back and the window is open. If the window is shut, then it quickly becomes so bad that even me as a smoker starts to choke.

I used to smoke in the car, but it's actually illegal now because a company car is "a place of work" and therefore banned. I do get a lot more road-rage and I have brutally murdered over 9000 idiots this month, but I think it's a good thing really.

At home I smoke out the back, or in the kitchen with the extractor on. If it's really late and I'm drinking, then I do smoke one or two in the front room provided the guests don't mind too much. By mind, I mean if they're not allergic. Otherwise they can stand out the back if they don't like it

Seriously though, if I had kids I wouldn't smoke in the same room as them. I don't smoke in other peoples houses unless they do. I don't even like smoking outside if my friend's kids can see me doing it.

My father has heart disease, and the doctors say it's probably because he worked for 50 years in a smoking office. He has never smoked. Seriously; children are more vulnerable to stuff like this, and smoking in the kitchen isn't that much of a sacrifice to make for them.

Other than that, from various things you've said in the past I do believe you're not just an excellent caring parent, but a great supporter of your children's friends and a very positive influence on your community and the forums you visit. I just don't think you should smoke in the same room as kids.

that is your choice
in my house i make the rules (when the wife lets me)
we smoke we will continue to smoke and if the kids don't like it they can stand out in the back yard
and if anybody has a problem with that, rest assured i wont lose any sleep over it …

The two cannot go together. You are deliberately subjecting the children to an environment that can/will damage their health, which you could easily avoid. That isn't loving or caring!

In general, from other threads, then yes, I believe you are loving, caring parents. But deliberately subjecting them to something like cigarette smoke just isn't.

I know how horrible it can be for the children - both of my parents smoked at home and in the car. It was horrible, but there wasn't anything we could do about it. We had to put up with the smell of smoke permeating out skin and clothes, that horrible stink of stale smoke when we went downstairs in the morning etc. Not to mention the health risks.

I don't know any parents, here, who would smoke in the house. They all go outside on the balcony, in the back garden etc. or they have a smoking room, where they can smoke, but the children aren't allowed.

For all the good things you do for your kids, I just find smoking in their presence, especially in an enclosed space, is irresponsible.

Calling it "cigarette smoke" makes it sound relatively harmless. It's not until you list the ingredients that it hits home

I dont know you, your children or your parenting skills. But that statement above I find abhorrent.

More than 5,000 smoke constituents have been identified in cigarette smoke. Around 150 of these have been identified as smoke toxicants.

The 43 your quoting as cancer causing would be the Hoffman analytes which were identified as those which are most dangerous. Formaldehyde, ammonia, hydrogen cyanide are caused by the combustion of tobacco.

By the way dont have barbecued food or smoked food as they will contain nitrosamines

One could postulate that while smoking MAY have an effect on your / your child's health (after-all it is not a definite), the practice of smoking around children – be that your own or another persons – should be frowned upon but not outlawed. This both protects the smokers' rights to smoke and his/her freedom to raise his/her children how he/she sees fit, whilst at the same time making it culturally unacceptable and frowned upon, thereby educating smokers to the potential risks / cultural nuances smoking can have on them and their offspring.

On a personal level: I used to smoke a fair bit but on this point I was always very conscious and courteous. I think it is not on to smoke around young children or indeed anyone eating food be they young or old. Indeed, I would get annoyed if someone was blowing smoke in my face whilst I ate as it is not a pleasant experience. However, this point should be dealt with by responsible individuals who make reasoned judgments themselves, weighing up all sides of the equation on an individual level, and not just relying on the definitive polar law of illegal / legal and just letting it wash over them like the tide. After-all, things are not black and white are they?

For example, I came to my conclusion by weighing up: my right to smoke (which was still legal indoors at the time), others' rights to not smoke (both directly and passively) and visit a public place in a smoke free environment, what the public place was and what was the contextual information, i.e. was it a pub at 8:00pm on a friday night or a bistro outside cafe area in the middle of the day, a child's right to remain in a smoke free environment etc etc etc. Basically, I made a reasoned judgement based on contextual information and then would smoke / not smoke based on that.

There are so many issues like this that can be resolved quite easily if people distance themselves from their own personal opinions / needs and look at the whole picture. By doing this the power of decision and choose remains with the individual, protecting our human rights and freedom.