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Tories send strongly worded letter about ID scheme 
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Linux_User wrote:
gavomatic57 wrote:
Linux_User wrote:
The Tories transformed Britain from the "sick man in Europe" to being a leading, dynamic economic power.


For about a month, until the vast majority fell behind on their mortgages and lost their homes....oh, and then there was the Poll Tax...


The "poll tax" is actually extremely fair. At the moment we have the ridiculous situation of poor old dears living in large houses paying a huge amount of council tax (or going to prison because they can't pay it), and lots of people in a small house paying comparatively little. The Community Charge would have rectified that situation.



Oh, extremely "fair". In fact people took to the streets in their thousands to tell the government how "fair" it was...then promptly voted Labour in.

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Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:18 pm
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gavomatic57 wrote:
Oh, extremely "fair". In fact people took to the streets in their thousands to tell the government how "fair" it was...then promptly voted Labour in.


People aren't exactly ecstatic about the current council tax system either. As for voting Labour in, look where that got us...massive invasion of civil liberties and the Country is virtually bankrupt (AGAIN!!).

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Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:42 pm
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I agree with the notion that the Tories are just as bad as Labour at being in charge. Neither are worth voting for. My vote will probably go for Lib Dem, but even they're quite similar in some aspects.

If I had the means, I'd take over this country and rule it single-handedly. And it'd be in a damn sight better situation than when run by any of the other political factions.

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Sat Jun 20, 2009 8:48 pm
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cloaked_wolf wrote:
I agree with the notion that the Tories are just as bad as Labour at being in charge. Neither are worth voting for. My vote will probably go for Lib Dem


Stop kidding yourself. That goes for everybody else too. You really think that they'll get in and even if they do, they'll be any better?!

All this, "I'd never vote Tory", or "Labour have never done anything for me" etc. is nonsense. Wake up! You can't blame a single politician for this country's problems. You can't even blame all of them. The problem here is us - the people. We hold the answers, but we allow those in power to trick us into thinking that they can change things. Only the people can really change things. Political reform is the way forward.

You're all just like the chaps sat round the table in the Death Star and the fact is - this bickering is pointless!


Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:21 pm
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The problem is the unutterable blandness and mediocrity of nearly all current politicians. I am old enough to remember "Socialism" , "Conservatism" and "Liberalism" when all those nouns applied to Political Parties, and to political ideologies.

Most people born in the last 30-odd years won't know what ideologies are, at least not in the British context. In a post Thatcher/Blairite world what we hear is that Cameron (or Blair, or Brown or...) will manage "things" more efficiently. Of course one man's "efficiency" is another man's redundancy. I'm not against efficiency, and in the context of widget-making its pretty easy to define: more widgets of equal quality for less cost = efficency.
Unfortunately this naive dictum doesn't apply to something as complex as the Health Service (or without the NHS the provision by whatever means of Health Care). To determine "efficiency" and "effectiveness" in such undertakings you need to address rather more fundamental questions than looking at the cost per patient "treated" or the numbers of patients treated per £ spent. So-called "bed-blocking" by old people is a classic example of this complexity. Old people too ill to live at home are often kept in hospital, but this is often defined as "Social Care" and NOT a health issue. Turf them out of hospital and where do they go, and more importantly, who pays?

At present we live in an ideology-free zone; a false consensus where nobody publicly questions the need for a Health Service, or for State-funded Education, or the Old Age Pension. But many do behind closed doors. The Right of the Tory party will force Cameron to allow the Health Service and all the other state-funded benefits we currently enjoy to wither and die, much as they did under Thatcher.
The current "crisis" is a perfect excuse: we are, as a nation too poor to spend on Health, (but wealthy enough to support Banks with hundreds of billions). New Labour are little better. They fear the Rightwing press led by Murdoch, they've never forgotten that it was "The Sun what done it" so they too mouth bland platitudes.

There are powerful ideologies at work, but as with their expenses most politicians, especially Tories, want to keep theirs hidden from the public. Lets face it Turkeys just don't vote for Christmas. We don't need politicians to be "managers" and shave a few bob off taxes, we need leaders to forge an idea of a better future for us all, and we need to hear them explain honestly how they intend to do it. Obama went some way towards this in the USA, now let's hear some ideas and ideals in this country.

Until we have a proper ideological punch-up between people who are prepared to not merely "admit" to an ideological perspective but proudly to declare it, we are doomed to have this bunch of self-serving tossers.....


Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:40 pm
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ethelredalready wrote:
The problem is the unutterable blandness and mediocrity of nearly all current politicians. I am old enough to remember "Socialism" , "Conservatism" and "Liberalism" when all those nouns applied to Political Parties, and to political ideologies.

Most people born in the last 30-odd years won't know what ideologies are, at least not in the British context. In a post Thatcher/Blairite world what we hear is that Cameron (or Blair, or Brown or...) will manage "things" more efficiently. Of course one man's "efficiency" is another man's redundancy. I'm not against efficiency, and in the context of widget-making its pretty easy to define: more widgets of equal quality for less cost = efficency.
Unfortunately this naive dictum doesn't apply to something as complex as the Health Service (or without the NHS the provision by whatever means of Health Care). To determine "efficiency" and "effectiveness" in such undertakings you need to address rather more fundamental questions than looking at the cost per patient "treated" or the numbers of patients treated per £ spent. So-called "bed-blocking" by old people is a classic example of this complexity. Old people too ill to live at home are often kept in hospital, but this is often defined as "Social Care" and NOT a health issue. Turf them out of hospital and where do they go, and more importantly, who pays?

At present we live in an ideology-free zone; a false consensus where nobody publicly questions the need for a Health Service, or for State-funded Education, or the Old Age Pension. But many do behind closed doors. The Right of the Tory party will force Cameron to allow the Health Service and all the other state-funded benefits we currently enjoy to wither and die, much as they did under Thatcher.
The current "crisis" is a perfect excuse: we are, as a nation too poor to spend on Health, (but wealthy enough to support Banks with hundreds of billions). New Labour are little better. They fear the Rightwing press led by Murdoch, they've never forgotten that it was "The Sun what done it" so they too mouth bland platitudes.

There are powerful ideologies at work, but as with their expenses most politicians, especially Tories, want to keep theirs hidden from the public. Lets face it Turkeys just don't vote for Christmas. We don't need politicians to be "managers" and shave a few bob off taxes, we need leaders to forge an idea of a better future for us all, and we need to hear them explain honestly how they intend to do it. Obama went some way towards this in the USA, now let's hear some ideas and ideals in this country.

Until we have a proper ideological punch-up between people who are prepared to not merely "admit" to an ideological perspective but proudly to declare it, we are doomed to have this bunch of self-serving tossers.....


Interesting point, and whilst I agree we need a change to the current platitude city mentality, I think better representation of the people is a better answer than simply people admitting they're left or right or whatever. Politics is bollocks, what matters is people.


Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:16 pm
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