http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12816226

They are attributing it to mechanical failure and not a shootdown.

The thing that interests me is, in the article, it says...

Now, wasn't David Cameron bigging it up on the news all yesterday afternoon, stating that Libya's air defence capability had been destroyed?

And a fairly old one as well, which probably doesn't help. I think the last F-15 airframe was built some time in the early 1990's, which means that aircraft was probably over 20 years old. I know they maintain the very well, but they're not just flying from a to b either. Kind of doesn't surprise me that much.

It also sounds like it crashed in the "safer" eastern part of Libya. so its crew would have little risk or torture by Gaddafi. I suspect that they had been picked up by now.

BBC One O'clock News reports 'both pilots' (/facepalm, but anyway) are safe.

Jon

Yes, their SAM capability.

Static SAM capability I'd have thought. You can't account for one bloke with a Stinger or SA-18. Or even a plain old everyday AK-47 if you're low enough. However looking at the wreckage on the news reports, some sort of controlled landing does seem to be a possibility - the engines seemed more or less intact, which wouldn't be the case if it had been hit by an IR homing missile. The remains suggest to me it's actually possible the plane was destroyed on the ground - I'd imagine that it's standard practice not to leave a pile of highly classified military tech lying around where just about anybody can find it. SOP is surely to retrieve what you can, then blow up/torch the rest so it's not recoverable by anyone you don't like.

Jon

Pity the crew of one of the rescue helicopters appear to have shot 6 civilians while attempting to pick up one of the pilots.


More here.

I read that in the BBC report which included that and they said something like 'However, the locals don't hold the US soldiers responsible'. Which I thought was a bit odd.

Soldiers on a recovery op generally don't pick fights with people - the SOP is to get in, grab the pilot and get out ASAP. They don't hang around to start firefights. There are standard procedures for suppressing the area as the chopper is landing but they must have known they weren't in directly hostile territory. And anyway, with suppressing fire you're not that bothered about accuracy, you're just trying to get people to keep their heads down. Plus they would have had radio contact with the airman, so he would have (you assume) told them the locals weren't any threat.

It is very odd. if they did just go in firing at whoever was there and using explosives for pity's sake, someone's going to be in a world of trouble over it. Even the yanks don't take kindly to their soldiers shooting up civilians at random, plus firing area effect armaments runs the risk of hitting the pilot you're trying to save.

Jon

F*cking cowboys.

On this occasion yes. Major FU.

thats the yanks for you
we come in peace, shoot to kill ...

If they had not opened fire it would have been insignificant overall. The lose of one fighter because of mechanical problems happens, shooting civilians very unfortunate and a court martial will be necessary.

I hear the Yanks bombed the wreckage last night.