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Richest students to pay for places at UK's best universities
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Author:  Amnesia10 [ Mon May 09, 2011 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Richest students to pay for places at UK's best universities

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/201 ... t-students

Quote:
Teenagers from the wealthiest families would be able to pay for extra places at the most competitive universities under government proposals that could allow institutions to charge some British students the same high fees as overseas undergraduates.

Candidates who take up the extra places would not be eligible for publicly funded loans to pay tuition fees or living costs, limiting this option to all but the most privileged households who could pay fees up front.

Under the plans, the extra students may be charged as much as international undergraduates. At the most competitive universities, these students face fees ranging from £12,000 a year for arts subjects to £18,000 for sciences and more than £28,000 for medicine. Applicants would be required to meet the course entry requirements.

Author:  l3v1ck [ Tue May 10, 2011 7:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Richest students to pay for places at UK's best universities

If they were good enough to get into the top universities, they should be able to get in through the normal process anyway!

Author:  jonbwfc [ Tue May 10, 2011 9:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Richest students to pay for places at UK's best universities

l3v1ck wrote:
If they were good enough to get into the top universities, they should be able to get in through the normal process anyway!

it does say...

Quote:
Applicants would be required to meet the course entry requirements.


But you have to wonder with the majority of british universities being.. er.. financially challenged at the moment there would be a great temptation to 'cram' popular courses and sod the requirements...

Jon

Author:  jonlumb [ Tue May 10, 2011 10:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Richest students to pay for places at UK's best universities

Aye, when so much of say the Oxbridge application process is on the basis of an interview, and that they quite often give out unconditional offers, it would be very easy to abuse if they wanted.

Author:  adidan [ Tue May 10, 2011 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Richest students to pay for places at UK's best universities

So the Tories want to allow you to buy your way into education. No surprise there.

Author:  l3v1ck [ Tue May 10, 2011 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Richest students to pay for places at UK's best universities

Wouldn't the top uni's use this as a sneaky way of getting extra money but not letting rich people in as standard?
Quote:
Prof 1: "If we let all the rich kids in the normal way, we won't get any extra cash as poor kids can't afford it"
Prof 2: Let's fix it so poor kids get all the normal places, then we can milk the rich kids.

It would be like having a post code lottery for even higher fees.

Author:  adidan [ Tue May 10, 2011 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Richest students to pay for places at UK's best universities

Think this is yet another idea they're knocking on the head. What is it with them? Since they came to power they've had countless 'ideas' that they've wasted time and money working on that have been fundamentally sh!t but they don't see it until much later on.

I despair, I really do.

Author:  l3v1ck [ Tue May 10, 2011 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Richest students to pay for places at UK's best universities

adidan wrote:
Think this is yet another idea they're knocking on the head. What is it with them? Since they came to power they've had countless 'ideas' that they've wasted time and money working on that have been fundamentally sh!t but they don't see it until much later on.
I know. All they had to do was fix the economy. People wouldn't like the cuts, but they'd accept the need for them. Now they're just making themselves look like numpties again.

Author:  bobbdobbs [ Tue May 10, 2011 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Richest students to pay for places at UK's best universities

adidan wrote:
Think this is yet another idea they're knocking on the head. What is it with them? Since they came to power they've had countless 'ideas' that they've wasted time and money working on that have been fundamentally sh!t but they don't see it until much later on.

I despair, I really do.

Actually I think it could be good idea. Those who are able to afford it can "Buy" an additional place. Leaving places for those that are "socially excluded" (thus meeting government guidelines on accessibility) and those who fall in the middle. The Uni gets a load of extra money and they dont get penalised for having more students then they are allowed.

Author:  l3v1ck [ Tue May 10, 2011 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Richest students to pay for places at UK's best universities

bobbdobbs wrote:
Actually I think it could be good idea. Those who are able to afford it can "Buy" an additional place. Leaving places for those that are "socially excluded" (thus meeting government guidelines on accessibility) and those who fall in the middle.

By pushing that model, your actually saying "Those who are able to afford it will have to "Buy" an additional place.
It's just even more huge fees by another name.

Author:  adidan [ Tue May 10, 2011 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Richest students to pay for places at UK's best universities

bobbdobbs wrote:
Actually I think it could be good idea. Those who are able to afford it can "Buy" an additional place. Leaving places for those that are "socially excluded" (thus meeting government guidelines on accessibility) and those who fall in the middle. The Uni gets a load of extra money and they dont get penalised for having more students then they are allowed.

How would that work in practice? What happens when you only have enough teaching staff for a set number? Do you include a "socially excluded" student, someone who can pay for a place or increase lecture sizes to the point of uselessness?

Author:  bobbdobbs [ Tue May 10, 2011 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Richest students to pay for places at UK's best universities

l3v1ck wrote:
bobbdobbs wrote:
Actually I think it could be good idea. Those who are able to afford it can "Buy" an additional place. Leaving places for those that are "socially excluded" (thus meeting government guidelines on accessibility) and those who fall in the middle.

By pushing that model, your actually saying "Those who are able to afford it will have to "Buy" an additional place.
It's just even more huge fees by another name.


Quote:
Candidates who take up the extra places would not be eligible for publicly funded loans to pay tuition fees or living costs


Quote:
Applicants would be required to meet the course entry requirements.

By afford
State pays less.
Applicants must still be "intelligent" enough to qualify
No places lost for those who cant afford to "buy" a place.

Seems like a win win situation

Author:  adidan [ Tue May 10, 2011 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Richest students to pay for places at UK's best universities

bobbdobbs wrote:
No places lost for those who cant afford to "buy" a place.

How, in practice and reality?

Author:  bobbdobbs [ Tue May 10, 2011 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Richest students to pay for places at UK's best universities

adidan wrote:
bobbdobbs wrote:
Actually I think it could be good idea. Those who are able to afford it can "Buy" an additional place. Leaving places for those that are "socially excluded" (thus meeting government guidelines on accessibility) and those who fall in the middle. The Uni gets a load of extra money and they dont get penalised for having more students then they are allowed.

How would that work in practice? What happens when you only have enough teaching staff for a set number? Do you include a "socially excluded" student, someone who can pay for a place or increase lecture sizes to the point of uselessness?

If you have the teaching staff for a set number then you cant go over that, unless you add in enough extra students to pay for that staff.
I see this as an idea that should be considered and not immediately dismissed out of hand. Theres nothing wrong with having the discussion and if it cant be done practically then put it to one side.

Author:  bobbdobbs [ Tue May 10, 2011 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Richest students to pay for places at UK's best universities

adidan wrote:
bobbdobbs wrote:
No places lost for those who cant afford to "buy" a place.

How, in practice and reality?

I dont know for sure, no one does. If its an idea being put forward for discussion, why not discuss it.
But if the piece in the guardian is an accurate reflection on the proposals then if a course has 30 places then anyone "buying" a place must not take one of those 30 places. They would be the added extra. The 30 places would be for people coming the normal route.

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