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Pothole repairs 'could cost £13bn' says Labour
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Author:  rustybucket [ Sun May 22, 2011 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Pothole repairs 'could cost £13bn' says Labour
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13488083

Quote:
Sixty-three authorities with a backlog were able to give an estimate of the repair bill, saying it came to £5.36bn.

"That would translate into £13.4bn across the country if roads in other areas were in a similar state of disrepair," shadow roads minister John Woodcock claimed.

Seventeen local authorities reported individual backlogs of £100m or more, with three county councils having backlogs in excess of £400m - North Yorkshire, Kent and Dev

:o

Post-Roman Britain called - it wants its roads back.

And it's a bit of a cheek for Labour to try and land this on the Government.
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Sun May 22, 2011 1:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pothole repairs 'could cost £13bn' says Labour
rustybucket wrote:
And it's a bit of a cheek for Labour to try and land this on the Government.

True but much more damage was done this last year than any other but much of the problem could be to councils using the funds for other purposes.
Author:  steve74 [ Sun May 22, 2011 2:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pothole repairs 'could cost £13bn' says Labour
Much of the damage round here on the roads was caused not this January gone, but the year before - when Labour were still in charge of the country (and I use that term in the loosest possible sense!).

So, some of these potholes have been here for 18 months, although there were probably deepened in the cold spell in January this year. It's so bad in places, I wouldn't dare go out on my bike, it's just too dangerous on two wheels - bad enough on 4 wheels! I'd like to know where our Road Tax money is going, I really would - cos it sure as hell isn't being used on the road repairs.
Author:  cloaked_wolf [ Sun May 22, 2011 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pothole repairs 'could cost £13bn' says Labour
It's not "road tax", it's "vehicle excise license" or some other crap, so you're taxed for using a car, not for using the road! A subtle change but it means the barstewards can spend it on other crap. TBH I'd rather all car-related tax go on tk improving the infrastructure. I'm sure ot cost less to build all of those roads originally than it does to repair them!

My tracking is now out as a result of a pothole on a blind bend.
Author:  rustybucket [ Sun May 22, 2011 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pothole repairs 'could cost £13bn' says Labour
Amnesia10 wrote:
rustybucket wrote:
And it's a bit of a cheek for Labour to try and land this on the Government.

True but much more damage was done this last year than any other but much of the problem could be to councils using the funds for other purposes.

That more potholes appeared last year than any other is probably true.

However, the increase in potholes can't have happened just because funds have been diverted between May and the winter. The pothole count depends on the quality of both the repairs the previous year and the maintenance during the previous few years. Whilst a decrease in repairs shows up pretty quickly, a decrease in preventative maintenance always takes a few years to show up as significantly decreased surface quality.

It was during the last Labour-led decade that councils slashed their road maintenance because it was cheaper to pay out for vehicle damage claims instead.

So cram it in your cramhole, Labour! ;)
Author:  Spreadie [ Sun May 22, 2011 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pothole repairs 'could cost £13bn' says Labour
The problem is that, even when they re-surface the roads, they do it on the cheap - plane off the surface course and replace it; regardless of the of the condition of the base and binder course underneath. Reflection cracking from the lower layers quickly weaken the surface course and allow water in. Then, at the first half decent freeze, the layers delaminate and the top breaks up.

Same with anything really, spend more money upfront and save yourself a fortune further down the line. Not something any UK government, or local authority, has excelled at TBH. :roll:
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Sun May 22, 2011 10:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pothole repairs 'could cost £13bn' says Labour
Spreadie wrote:
The problem is that, even when they re-surface the roads, they do it on the cheap - plane off the surface course and replace it; regardless of the of the condition of the base and binder course underneath. Reflection cracking from the lower layers quickly weaken the surface course and allow water in. Then, at the first half decent freeze, the layers delaminate and the top breaks up.

Same with anything really, spend more money upfront and save yourself a fortune further down the line. Not something any UK government, or local authority, has excelled at TBH. :roll:

Yes maybe that is the main reason, low quality patching of the roads is a false economy.
Author:  MrStevenRogers [ Sun May 22, 2011 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pothole repairs 'could cost £13bn' says Labour
Amnesia10 wrote:
Spreadie wrote:
The problem is that, even when they re-surface the roads, they do it on the cheap - plane off the surface course and replace it; regardless of the of the condition of the base and binder course underneath. Reflection cracking from the lower layers quickly weaken the surface course and allow water in. Then, at the first half decent freeze, the layers delaminate and the top breaks up.

Same with anything really, spend more money upfront and save yourself a fortune further down the line. Not something any UK government, or local authority, has excelled at TBH. :roll:

Yes maybe that is the main reason, low quality patching of the roads is a false economy.


councils are spending pounds to save pennies
nothing new here ...

the roads around where i live have forced me to buy a 4x4
as its the only thing that can cope and im not a 4x4 lover ...
Author:  Linux_User [ Sun May 22, 2011 11:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pothole repairs 'could cost £13bn' says Labour
I remember a council blokee on TV quite a while back complaining that the poor state of the roads was often not the fault of the council - dozens, if not hundreds of companies have the right to dig up the roads without notice and patch it up when they're done. Of course, being private sector companies they do a poor quality job and use cheap rubbish. Also, by patching the road (as opposed to re-doing the whole thing) they make it worse anyway.
Author:  MrStevenRogers [ Sun May 22, 2011 11:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pothole repairs 'could cost £13bn' says Labour
Linux_User wrote:
I remember a council blokee on TV quite a while back complaining that the poor state of the roads was often not the fault of the council - dozens, if not hundreds of companies have the right to dig up the roads without notice and patch it up when they're done. Of course, being private sector companies they do a poor quality job and use cheap rubbish. Also, by patching the road (as opposed to re-doing the whole thing) they make it worse anyway.


red ken
as leader of the greater london council made all pay for the digging up and relaying of roads
and it worked

all business look for the lowest cost value for greater profit margins
red ken made sure that they paid for their miss management

and again i state, it worked ...
Author:  Spreadie [ Mon May 23, 2011 12:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pothole repairs 'could cost £13bn' says Labour
Linux_User wrote:
I remember a council blokee on TV quite a while back complaining that the poor state of the roads was often not the fault of the council - dozens, if not hundreds of companies have the right to dig up the roads without notice and patch it up when they're done. Of course, being private sector companies they do a poor quality job and use cheap rubbish. Also, by patching the road (as opposed to re-doing the whole thing) they make it worse anyway.


That's true, especially of utilities companies. They contract out the vast majority of their work to private firms.

The private firms are all about saving a penny, so they often back-fill a trench they have dug (e.g. for pipework repairs) with a cheaper grade material than the surrounding road surface. They are particularly fond of ordering cheap sub-base substitutes (even crushed chalk) and surfacing material with a softer grade of bitumen than what is required, because it's more pliable and easier to work with hand tools; meaning they can finish up and move on to the next job that much quicker.

The result? it's everywhere you look. Sunken repairs around man-holes & trenches, and failing road surfaces because they didn't bother to joint seal the new and existing materials properly.
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Mon May 23, 2011 1:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pothole repairs 'could cost £13bn' says Labour
Yes these do excuse all councils to a great extent. Though maybe the councils should not allow the utilities to get away with it? Or are they even able to stop such practices?
Author:  dogbert10 [ Mon May 23, 2011 6:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pothole repairs 'could cost £13bn' says Labour
One of the roads near me has been patched so many times it looks like a chessboard - I'll should take a picture for posterity.
Author:  tombolt [ Mon May 23, 2011 10:04 am ]
Post subject:  Pothole repairs 'could cost £13bn' says Labour
Image
Author:  paulzolo [ Mon May 23, 2011 10:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pothole repairs 'could cost £13bn' says Labour
We have loads of potholes around here - I know when I’ve come home as there is a particular road which is in a real mess.

The concern here is the pavement, which has lost its surface to frost and snow, and has become a menace to regular pedestrians, not to mention the old, infirm and wheel-chair bound. It’s not a small hole either -a few metres of disintegration.

The site was marked for repair in January - there are orange markers on the pavement. Nothing has been done. Since then, the Tories have tightened their grip on the local council, and I suspect they would rather spend the money sprucing up some of the more affluent areas of town.
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