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Church clears the way for celibate gay bishops
http://www.x404.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=13987		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  pcernie [ Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Church clears the way for celibate gay bishops
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13831162

I'll be laughing at that one all night :lol:
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Church clears the way for celibate gay bishops
Well they are finally catching up to the 20th century. :lol:
Author:  bobbdobbs [ Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Church clears the way for celibate gay bishops
Amnesia10 wrote:
Well they are finally catching up to the 20th century. :lol:

Why should they catch upto the 20th century? Should beliefs change according to the current state of the law? Are we in postion where doublethought needs to be introduced and make everyone believe in the same thing?
Author:  davrosG5 [ Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Church clears the way for celibate gay bishops
bobbdobbs wrote:
Amnesia10 wrote:
Well they are finally catching up to the 20th century. :lol:

Why should they catch upto the 20th century? Should beliefs change according to the current state of the law? Are we in postion where doublethought needs to be introduced and make everyone believe in the same thing?


Yes, you're darn right they should.
I refer the right honourable forumite to religions which mandate stoning. It's not considered accepatble in this country because secular law superceeds religious law.
Author:  bobbdobbs [ Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Church clears the way for celibate gay bishops
davrosG5 wrote:
bobbdobbs wrote:
Amnesia10 wrote:
Well they are finally catching up to the 20th century. :lol:

Why should they catch upto the 20th century? Should beliefs change according to the current state of the law? Are we in postion where doublethought needs to be introduced and make everyone believe in the same thing?


Yes, you're darn right they should.
I refer the right honourable forumite to religions which mandate stoning. It's not considered accepatble in this country because secular law superceeds religious law.

The action of stoning is not considered to be acceptable (for now) but the belief that someone should be stoned (not in the munchies way :lol: ) can not or should never be "banned" by law.
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Church clears the way for celibate gay bishops
bobbdobbs wrote:
The action of stoning is not considered to be acceptable (for now) but the belief that someone should be stoned (not in the munchies way :lol: ) can not or should never be "banned" by law.

Will the former be relaxed during the zombie apocolypse?

As for the second wouldn't stoning by rocks (not cannabis) be illegal as it could be defined as murder which even the bible bans. ;)
Author:  bobbdobbs [ Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Church clears the way for celibate gay bishops
Amnesia10 wrote:
bobbdobbs wrote:
The action of stoning is not considered to be acceptable (for now) but the belief that someone should be stoned (not in the munchies way :lol: ) can not or should never be "banned" by law.

Will the former be relaxed during the zombie apocolypse?

As for the second wouldn't stoning by rocks (not cannabis) be illegal as it could be defined as murder which even the bible bans. ;)
nope read the book of leviticus.
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Church clears the way for celibate gay bishops
That shalt not kill was one of the ten commandments. Though stoning was a man made punishment though under British law we no longer have the death penalty.
Author:  rustybucket [ Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Church clears the way for celibate gay bishops
Amnesia10 wrote:
That shalt not kill was one of the ten commandments.

No it wasn't.

The sense of 'Ratzach' in 'lo tiritzach' denotes an unlawful killing that results in bloodguilt. 'You shall not murder' tends to be the preferred translation although even this misses something of the sense carried by the Hebrew.
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Church clears the way for celibate gay bishops
rustybucket wrote:
Amnesia10 wrote:
That shalt not kill was one of the ten commandments.

No it wasn't.

The sense of 'Ratzach' in 'lo tiritzach' denotes an unlawful killing that results in bloodguilt. 'You shall not murder' tends to be the preferred translation although even this misses something of the sense carried by the Hebrew.

Well my hebrew is just as rusty as my bible knowledge. :oops:
Author:  cloaked_wolf [ Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Church clears the way for celibate gay bishops
Surely if you're celibate, you give up your sexuality, whether it be straight, homosexual, bisexual or paedophilia? Hence you shouldn't be able to get a gay priest? I imagine it to be an oxymoron!
Author:  ProfessorF [ Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Church clears the way for celibate gay bishops
cloaked_wolf wrote:
Surely if you're celibate, you give up your sexuality, whether it be straight, homosexual, bisexual or paedophilia?


Not at all. All you're giving up is the physical act of making love, having sex, [LIFTED], call it what you will. What you aren't giving up is the feelings of attraction and appreciation with regard to whatever floats your boat.
Sexuality affects you in more ways than just the mechanics of what goes where with whom.
Author:  jonbwfc [ Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Church clears the way for celibate gay bishops
ProfessorF wrote:
cloaked_wolf wrote:
Surely if you're celibate, you give up your sexuality, whether it be straight, homosexual, bisexual or paedophilia?

Not at all. All you're giving up is the physical act of making love, having sex, [LIFTED], call it what you will. What you aren't giving up is the feelings of attraction and appreciation with regard to whatever floats your boat.
Sexuality affects you in more ways than just the mechanics of what goes where with whom.

I kind of have to disagree. Surely the whole point of celibacy is to... free the mind from base thoughts and instincts, to allow one to concentrate on the spiritual? Simply refraining from horizontal jogging is not going to free the mind in any way. For most, I'd say abstaining from the physical while retaining the intellectual aspects of desire would in fact be worse. There are even theories - admittedly with little evidence to back them up - that frustration from traditional relationships is what leads some priests into more... dysfunctional sexual practices. Not a theory I agree with, but it's out there. It's not just christians either - buddhist teaching say that enlightenment can only be achieved when all earthly considerations are reconciled, not simply removed. You can only reach Nirvana when you realise you don't want or need those things any more, not merely when you are able to resist the desire to have them.

I'd say if you are to be celibate, it has to be through an acceptance that sex in all it's aspects is no longer a part of your life, or you're almost asking to end up horribly conflicted and frustrated as a human being. In that condition, you're certainly in no shape to provide spiritual guidance to anyone else.

Jon
Author:  ProfessorF [ Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Church clears the way for celibate gay bishops
jonbwfc wrote:
I'd say if you are to be celibate, it has to be through an acceptance that sex in all it's aspects is no longer a part of your life, or you're almost asking to end up horribly conflicted and frustrated as a human being.


I think there's a confusion over abstinence (which on reflection, is probably what I'm talking about) and celibacy.
I also don't believe that giving up on the physical act of sex means that you're liable to become some befuddled weirdo who can't tell wrong from right.
It's quite possible to appreciate something without needing involve yourself actively in it, surely?
Author:  cloaked_wolf [ Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Church clears the way for celibate gay bishops
+1 for what Jon said - that's what I'm talking about. Sex is removed from your mind. You become free of sexuality and become sexless. In theory, you should have mastery such that ten naked women gagging for your wang doesn't peak yout interest.
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