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Roadwork charge for digging up roads proposed
http://www.x404.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=14531
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Author:  Spreadie [ Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:41 am ]
Post subject:  Roadwork charge for digging up roads proposed

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14610580

The Highways Agency already favour out of hours for major roadworks/resurfacing, where the extra costs can be offset against the cost of disruption. It works due to economies of scale.

Forcing utilities contractors and the like to work outside of regular business hours will cost us MORE money. They do, manhole replacements, pot-holes, pipework replacement and leak fixes. All of which require very small amounts of materials from their suppliers; who have hefty surcharges for out-of-hours opening and supply. Add that to additional costs for the contractors, in wages/unsociable hours payments. It doesn't stack up.

Author:  rustybucket [ Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Roadwork charge for digging up roads proposed

It's a bit dumb to be blunt.

Far better, IMO, would be to have the county council dig up and fill in the road and charge the utility for the privilege. That way, the whole hole can be supervised by the local Clerk of Works.

Only government employees and contractors should ever be allowed to dig up the roads.

Author:  hifidelity2 [ Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Roadwork charge for digging up roads proposed

I think you might be missing the point. At the moment a company gets permission to dig up the road. While they do estimate how long it will take there is almost no comeabck if they exceed that time so if they get another job they can leave the 1st one unfinished for weeks or months

With road "rental" it would be in their interest to complete the job asap - so reducing the amount of disruption to motorists

Author:  HeatherKay [ Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Roadwork charge for digging up roads proposed

Never mind motorists! As a recently reborn cyclist, I'd just be happy for the road to be reinstated as fairly level and smooth! :lol:

Author:  Spreadie [ Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Roadwork charge for digging up roads proposed

hifidelity2 wrote:
I think you might be missing the point. At the moment a company gets permission to dig up the road. While they do estimate how long it will take there is almost no comeabck if they exceed that time so if they get another job they can leave the 1st one unfinished for weeks or months

With road "rental" it would be in their interest to complete the job asap - so reducing the amount of disruption to motorists

Lane rental has been inplace on major roads contracts for years; with hefty penalties for over-running the handover deadline - £50K per day or more in some cases. It works well, when you're resurfacing lane 1 on the M6, with no street furniture in the way to foul things up.

I have no issues with the lane rental system - it's the idea that they would be forced into working out-of-hours that scares me. Pay out to do the work during business hours, or work nights and bill the Local Authority more for the privilege. Councils will have to step sharp to re-negotiate every contract with the utilities companies; and they will have to do the same with their contractors, or Joe Public gets reamed again.

Author:  Linux_User [ Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Roadwork charge for digging up roads proposed

All companies who need to dig up roads should have to apply to the local authority for permission. That way the council can ensure any works that need to be carried out in an area are scheduled for a similar time so that the road only need be dug up once, rather than have disruption for many weeks by many different companies.

Companies should also be forced to do a better job of closing the road so that pot holes etc are less likely to develop, or have the council do it and have them invoice the company.

Author:  hifidelity2 [ Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Roadwork charge for digging up roads proposed

Spreadie wrote:
- it's the idea that they would be forced into working out-of-hours that scares me. Pay out to do the work during business hours, or work nights and bill the Local Authority more for the privilege. Councils will have to step sharp to re-negotiate every contract with the utilities companies; and they will have to do the same with their contractors, or Joe Public gets reamed again.

I guess then it comes down to which is the lesser of two evils

The work being done at night (Say) when there is little traffic so keeping the roads flowing at rush hours (but costing more)
or
Work done during the day esp at rush hour, so causing delays but being slightly cheaper

Author:  Amnesia10 [ Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Roadwork charge for digging up roads proposed

hifidelity2 wrote:
Spreadie wrote:
- it's the idea that they would be forced into working out-of-hours that scares me. Pay out to do the work during business hours, or work nights and bill the Local Authority more for the privilege. Councils will have to step sharp to re-negotiate every contract with the utilities companies; and they will have to do the same with their contractors, or Joe Public gets reamed again.

I guess then it comes down to which is the lesser of two evils

The work being done at night (Say) when there is little traffic so keeping the roads flowing at rush hours (but costing more)
or
Work done during the day esp at rush hour, so causing delays but being slightly cheaper

Though if they do the work during the day the real costs are imposed on the drivers in lost time and extra petrol used waiting to get through the congestion.

Author:  adidan [ Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Roadwork charge for digging up roads proposed

If they could just organise things so that when a hole is dug all of the companies wishing to lay cables actually laid them at the same frakin time.

Author:  Amnesia10 [ Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Roadwork charge for digging up roads proposed

adidan wrote:
If they could just organise things so that when a hole is dug all of the companies wishing to lay cables actually laid them at the same frakin time.

I had the idea some years ago of a large tube placed underground which would be accessed by manhole covers so that you only needed to access a manhole and then you could simply send a man or two to walk through it dragging what ever cable they needed. It would mean no more road works as you could always access via a manhole. It would be expensive initially but since every company would effectively be able to use the system then they could have much lower installation costs and much easier maintenance if required. Also you only needing to get access to a manhole it would substantially reduce the congestion if work was needed.

Author:  MrStevenRogers [ Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Roadwork charge for digging up roads proposed

believe it or not
the defunct GLC with red ken as leader made all utilities pay for road repairs if they dug the roads up
the utilities soon got together so all repairs were done at the same time thus reducing costs

sadly the tories (who like cost cutting) abolished the GLC and left it to the free market, ho hum ...

Author:  Amnesia10 [ Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Roadwork charge for digging up roads proposed

MrStevenRogers wrote:
believe it or not
the defunct GLC with red ken as leader made all utilities pay for road repairs if they dug the roads up
the utilities soon got together so all repairs were done at the same time thus reducing costs

sadly the tories (who like cost cutting) abolished the GLC and left it to the free market, ho hum ...

Yet another failed Tory policy. :roll:

Author:  bobbdobbs [ Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Roadwork charge for digging up roads proposed

Amnesia10 wrote:
MrStevenRogers wrote:
believe it or not
the defunct GLC with red ken as leader made all utilities pay for road repairs if they dug the roads up
the utilities soon got together so all repairs were done at the same time thus reducing costs

sadly the tories (who like cost cutting) abolished the GLC and left it to the free market, ho hum ...

Yet another failed Tory policy. :roll:

Good job all those Labour policies (1997-2010) have led us to a land of opportunity and social justice for all....oh wait.. :roll:
A summary of Kens time as London's mayor
Quote:
Tax: The Mayor both collects and spends an unprecedented level of Londoner’s money
with the GLA precept up 147% and government grants up 41% in real terms.
Due to the increase in the precept Londoners are now paying £289 more in council tax
than other city dwellers in the UK. This is despite the GLA now receiving tax payer
grants worth £2,000 per household.
London Underground: While the population growth makes for record passenger levels
individual Londoners are starting to use the Tube less. This is caused by increased delays
(up 14%), more overcrowding (up 8%) and higher fares (up 17% on average) since Ken
took control.
London Bus network: Bus speeds have declined despite fewer vehicles being on
London’s roads. Meanwhile the subsidy for the bus network has grown to £212 per
London household, up 71% over the last five years.
Transport for London: As wages have spiralled the operating loss of Transport for
London has worsened. Losses now eat a bigger part of the annual subsidy, meaning a
30% cut in funds left for capital investment.
The growing wage bill has added £300m to TfL’s bottom line over the last five years. TfL
employs 232 people paid more than £100k per year. By contrast the Home Office had
43 people paid this much. The Treasury has just 7 such earners.
The congestion charge: The congestion charge has failed to reduce congestion. 99%
of its revenues have gone on costs so far. It has cost London £930m so far – and raised
only £10m for investment in public transport.
The Metropolitan Police: While the budget is up 81% since Ken took over, police
numbers are up only 20%. Violent crime is on the increase too, up 17% since the Mayor
took over. Meanwhile the Met compares operationally very poorly to a peer group of
similar forces.
The GLA itself. Staff numbers are up 83% since the first full year of the GLA, with the
fastest growth in the marketing department. Including TfL and the other bodies
Livingstone controls, 173 press officers now work for the Mayor.

A resounding success.. trebles all round!!!!

Author:  Amnesia10 [ Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Roadwork charge for digging up roads proposed

bobbdobbs wrote:
Good job all those Labour policies (1997-2010) have led us to a land of opportunity and social justice for all....oh wait.. :roll:

A resounding success.. trebles all round!!!!

Yes but they were following conservative Neoliberal policies and they were crap as well. I want both parties to move back to the centre not leaving the Liberals as the only left leaning party, by virtue of both Labour and Conservatives moving to the right significantly. The fact that the Tories are so far to the right now make them a wasted vote as far as I am concerned. They want powers to clamp down on freedoms should there be a need. Even Syria spokeswoman said that what they were doing was similar to what the Tories plan.

Author:  bobbdobbs [ Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Roadwork charge for digging up roads proposed

Amnesia10 wrote:
bobbdobbs wrote:
Good job all those Labour policies (1997-2010) have led us to a land of opportunity and social justice for all....oh wait.. :roll:

A resounding success.. trebles all round!!!!

Yes but they were following conservative Neoliberal policies and they were crap as well.


Amnesia10 wrote:
I want both parties to move back to the centre not leaving the Liberals as the only left leaning party.
eh? If both parties move to the centre that would leave the liberals as the only left of centre party! Or I'm misunderstanding what you wrote.

Amnesia10 wrote:
The fact that the Tories are so far to the right now make them a wasted vote as far as I am concerned.
Amnesia10 wrote:
As your political leaning , from what you have been posting, they would always be a waste of your vote.


Amnesia10 wrote:
They want powers to clamp down on freedoms should there be a need. Even Syria spokeswoman said that what they were doing was similar to what the Tories plan.
As far as I am aware I haven't seen tanks go in to restore order anywhere in the mainland UK since the General Election, or they have kept that quiet. There is also a large difference between a group of lawless thugs looting for no reason than they can and a population fighting to try and achieve some sort of life without the threat of torture or death if they happen to disagree with the current regime.
Any encroachment on our freedoms (as we have them) should not be done without thorough discussion and calm reflection and not as a knee jerk reaction.

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