x404.co.uk
http://www.x404.co.uk/forum/

Freedom of Information
http://www.x404.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=14623
Page 1 of 2

Author:  belchingmatt [ Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:13 am ]
Post subject:  Freedom of Information

I think FoIs are a good idea generally, something the public and watchdogs can use to ensure agencies and departments are working as we expect them to. However Philip Morris has submitted a request to Stirling University for data on teenage smokers.

Read more at the BBC here.

No doubt PM are expecting that a publicly funded operation will have to provide this information.

Author:  bobbdobbs [ Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Freedom of Information

belchingmatt wrote:
I think FoIs are a good idea generally, something the public and watchdogs can use to ensure agencies and departments are working as we expect them to. However Philip Morris has submitted a request to Stirling University for data on teenage smokers.

Read more at the BBC here.

No doubt PM are expecting that a publicly funded operation will have to provide this information.

If thems the rules thems the rules.
You cant decide oh we dont like the person/company who have requested the information so we wont give it to them.
Quote:
"Such government-funded research conducted by public institutions is covered by the Freedom of Information Act, in accordance with which members of the public can request information held by public authorities."

She added: "With regards to this FoI request, the Scottish Information Commissioner confirmed in his decision of 30 June, that we had a legitimate interest in seeking the information and asked the university to respond to the request.

Author:  Amnesia10 [ Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Freedom of Information

I would have thought that this information could be used to undermine public health measures and on that basis alone should be not allowed. It would also give this company a competitive advantage over their competitors. If the information has to be provided then redact all personal information and only group individual data in a way that guarantees anonymity. Though longer term this type of request should be disqualified as it is not for the public good.

Author:  bobbdobbs [ Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Freedom of Information

Amnesia10 wrote:
I would have thought that this information could be used to undermine public health measures and on that basis alone should be not allowed. It would also give this company a competitive advantage over their competitors. If the information has to be provided then redact all personal information and only group individual data in a way that guarantees anonymity. Though longer term this type of request should be disqualified as it is not for the public good.


That line of reasoning would mean the vast amount of FOI requests could be refused. Where would you stop. Who decides what is in the public good. In this case the commissioner has decided that the request is a legitimate request and thus the relevant information should be handed over.

Quote:
"We are not seeking any private or confidential information on any individuals involved with the research. As provided by the freedom of Information Act, confidential and private information concerning individuals should not be disclosed."
No need to worry about any personnel information or anonymity.

If this was ASH asking for that information then there would be no furore about it.Publicly funded research should always be available to anyone who asks for it, if it is a legitimate request.

What is determined as the public good now may not be in the future or even correct, just look at the decision on how the alcohol unit intake came about. It has no foundation in any scientific fact or theory but was decided because the ministers wanted a number.

Author:  Amnesia10 [ Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Freedom of Information

Yes but ASH are not a commercial organisation. I do not think that all commercial FoI requests should be banned. There are occasions such as the press who publish the information to a wider audience, should not be constrained. The problem is that if a university researchs some technique that they plan to license to a third party what is to stop another party demanding all the information as a FoI request effectively stripping that university of income?

Author:  bobbdobbs [ Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Freedom of Information

Amnesia10 wrote:
Yes but ASH are not a commercial organisation. I do not think that all commercial FoI requests should be banned. There are occasions such as the press who publish the information to a wider audience, should not be constrained.
ASH are a private entity that is driven by an agenda (as are in this case PMI)

Amnesia10 wrote:
The problem is that if a university researchs some technique that they plan to license to a third party what is to stop another party demanding all the information as a FoI request effectively stripping that university of income?

if it as privately funded or a private company funded the research then it wouldn't be covered by a FOI

Quote:
Such government-funded research conducted by public institutions is covered by the Freedom of Information Act


If research is done that will be used to formulate governmental policy or influence it whether it be about tobacco, food or alcohol (as examples) using public money then the findings and the data used to formulate the conclusions should be made public (minus any identifying or personnel information)for anyone to look at.

Author:  Amnesia10 [ Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Freedom of Information

bobbdobbs wrote:
Amnesia10 wrote:
The problem is that if a university researchs some technique that they plan to license to a third party what is to stop another party demanding all the information as a FoI request effectively stripping that university of income?

if it as privately funded or a private company funded the research then it wouldn't be covered by a FOI.

Yes but not all research is privately funded. It would mean the complete end to blue skies funding in this country.

Author:  bobbdobbs [ Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Freedom of Information

Amnesia10 wrote:
bobbdobbs wrote:
Amnesia10 wrote:
The problem is that if a university researchs some technique that they plan to license to a third party what is to stop another party demanding all the information as a FoI request effectively stripping that university of income?

if it as privately funded or a private company funded the research then it wouldn't be covered by a FOI.

Yes but not all research is privately funded. It would mean the complete end to blue skies funding in this country.

No it wouldnt.
Has the FOI act caused an end to "blue sky" research...nope.
It still goes on. The standpoint of the FOI commissioner (and the FOI act itself) is that if the research is funded out of public money then anyone having a relevant reason can ask to have a copy of that research.

Author:  AlunD [ Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Freedom of Information

What the FOI act has done is ensure that:

1) certain organisations have to spend loads of our money resourcing answering predominantly stupid questions. :twisted:

2) ensuring that data is deleted at the earliest opportunity so questions cannot be answered. :roll:

Don't get me wrong, transparency of public bodies and valid information being made available I am totally up for. However the vast majority of questions asked are people being silly and costing taxpayers millions. :evil:

Author:  belchingmatt [ Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Freedom of Information

As it is a research project by a university then surely the results would be published anyway. Are PM trying to get hold of the raw data?

Author:  bobbdobbs [ Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Freedom of Information

belchingmatt wrote:
As it is a research project by a university then surely the results would be published anyway. Are PM trying to get hold of the raw data?

Just like all the global warming research was?
As this research is likely to form or have formed the arguments about things like the plain packaging proposals. If the data doesn't support the conclusions then it will allow pmi to legally contest those decisions.
Just like when the EPA originally declared passive smoking as dangerous, they used some really dodgy techniques to get the data to say what they had all ready been decided.

Author:  jonbwfc [ Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Freedom of Information

Generally speaking the anonymised data will be published as an appendix to the academic paper anyway. But that's probably not what the request is asking for I suspect. It would be illegal, even under a FoI request, to give out data which allowed individual subjects to be identified, as that would be a clear breach of the data protection act.

Jon

Author:  Amnesia10 [ Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Freedom of Information

Tobacco giants tell Whitehall to hand over its secret minutes

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/scien ... 47907.html

Quote:
The tobacco industry is targeting the Department of Health to extract information about meetings between government officials and researchers who are investigating the public-health implications of new smoking policies.

One leading tobacco company has asked for – and been given access to – the minutes of a confidential meeting between health department officials, cancer experts and foreign government officials – to the surprise of those who attended the private discussions.

The Freedom of Information requests are part of a global campaign by tobacco companies to fight any further legal restrictions on cigarette sales and promotion, particularly the introduction of plain cigarette packets devoid of company logos and branding.

Author:  davrosG5 [ Sat Sep 03, 2011 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Freedom of Information

belchingmatt wrote:
As it is a research project by a university then surely the results would be published anyway. Are PM trying to get hold of the raw data?


The results of the studies have indeed been published in peer reviewed journals.
I get the impression however that PMI are interested in the participants responses concerning the effectiveness of tobacco advertising. A tobacco company simply wouldn't be able to obtain this information itself, as the age group targeted in the study are under the legal age for smoking. Trying to improve marketing material for people who are under legal age isn't exactly going to go down well but that's what I think PMI are effectively trying to do, however much they want to hide it.

The trouble with FOI requests that target sensitive data or confidential meetings are that it will ultimately impede open discussion and debate as people will be concerned that it'll ultimately end up in the public domain, or be used for commercial purposes for which it was never intended.

I do note however that the information commissioner didn't exactly say that the University was wrong to reject the request but rather that the reason chosen for the initial rejection (a vexatious inquiry) was not satisfactory so maybe there is some hope that the IC has at least a modicum of common sense and will apply it.

Author:  Linux_User [ Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Freedom of Information

Amnesia10 wrote:
I would have thought that this information could be used to undermine public health measures and on that basis alone should be not allowed.

I don't see how, tobacco advertising is already banned in the United Kingdom, first in Scotland, and then in England and Wales & Northern Ireland by the Tobacco Advertising and Promotion Act 2002.

Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
https://www.phpbb.com/