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Parents could lose benefits if children play truant
http://www.x404.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=14660		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Sun Sep 04, 2011 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Parents could lose benefits if children play truant
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... ruant.html

Quote:
The crackdown on what David Cameron has described as “the hard core minority of families” who cause trouble in their neighbourhoods threatens a fresh rift between the Tories and their Liberal Democrat coalition partners.
The Prime Minister yesterday vowed to take a tougher approach to tackling social problems such as discipline in schools and said that in doing so he would push aside the “old taboos and sensitivities”.
But the scrapping of child benefit for those who fail to send their children to school, a measure said to have the support of Steve Hilton, Mr Cameron's head of strategy, is certain to be opposed by Lib Dems and Labour.
Michael Gove, the Education Secretary, last week linked a failure in education with the recent riots and said it was time to review truancy sanctions to help the "educational underclass".

Well more policies that show that we are being ruled by scum. What about taking the incomes from working parents that do the same?
Author:  Fogmeister [ Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Parents could lose benefits if children play truant
See, my reaction to reading that is something along the lines of. "at f*cking last!"

The reason we are in the state we are is because people have not been exposed to any consequences following their actions.

The sooner people begin to learn that they have to put something into the system in order to get something out of it the better.


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=53.851113,-1.531025
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Parents could lose benefits if children play truant
Fogmeister wrote:
See, my reaction to reading that is something along the lines of. "at f*cking last!"

The reason we are in the state we are is because people have not been exposed to any consequences following their actions.

The sooner people begin to learn that they have to put something into the system in order to get something out of it the better.


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=53.851113,-1.531025

Yes but the parents might be dropping the kids off at school and they still truant. What then? The kids should suffer. I think that with the huge numbers unable to read and write we should hold kids back a year till they can satisfy that years required level. Imagine if they skive from school and when kids move up a year they are still in the same classes as before and their friends have moved on.
Author:  Fogmeister [ Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Parents could lose benefits if children play truant
I agree completely.

Although I imagine that holding kids back would been met with more controversy than reducing/stopping benefits.

Tbh I just struggle to understand why people don't have any sort of desire to make the best of their lives.

It's a very odd society that we live in.


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=53.851113,-1.531025
Author:  ProfessorF [ Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Parents could lose benefits if children play truant
Amnesia10 wrote:
Yes but the parents might be dropping the kids off at school and they still truant. What then? The kids should suffer. I think that with the huge numbers unable to read and write we should hold kids back a year till they can satisfy that years required level. Imagine if they skive from school and when kids move up a year they are still in the same classes as before and their friends have moved on.


I don't think it's one or the other - the child will still be punished. Of course, soon it'll be a legal requirement for a child to be in education until they're 18 though.
What this'll hopefully do is encourage 'parenting'. Of course, the school staff might not be pleased about having the little sods back in class though...
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Parents could lose benefits if children play truant
There is the other aspect of dyslexia which is not always picked up by doctors or teachers. This can be a factor. Also kids progress at different rates so the current scheme of starting at 4 does not help slow starters. In Sweden they do not start till 6 and the first year is just simple rhymes and doing the alphabet. So they do not actually start school till they are 7 yet they have overtaken us by the time they are at high school. They even start English at 6, just nursery rhymes but they start early.
Author:  big_D [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Parents could lose benefits if children play truant
Fogmeister wrote:
See, my reaction to reading that is something along the lines of. "at f*cking last!"

The reason we are in the state we are is because people have not been exposed to any consequences following their actions.

The sooner people begin to learn that they have to put something into the system in order to get something out of it the better.


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=53.851113,-1.531025

+1

It is the parents responsibility to ensure that the child attends school. I think, if the child skips school once or twice, then they should get a warning, but if they regularly play truant, then there should be consequences for the parents for not controlling their children.

Here, on the other hand, if you take a child out of school for a weeks holiday (when it is the only week where you can have a holiday, for example), then you are liable to fines and a visit from social services, if the school doesn't agree to it - which they usually don't. I think the fine is something like 40€ a day.
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Parents could lose benefits if children play truant
big_D wrote:
Here, on the other hand, if you take a child out of school for a weeks holiday (when it is the only week where you can have a holiday, for example), then you are liable to fines and a visit from social services, if the school doesn't agree to it - which they usually don't. I think the fine is something like 40€ a day.

You see that is something that I object to. When I was at school my family ran a hotel so the summer was their peak period. If they were restricted to a family holiday then I would never have experienced foreign travel. What about low income families? Should their kids also miss out because they cannot afford summer prices? The solution is for kids to take homework or have to catch up when they get back. Fines are just a revenue raiser. The rich would just factor it in as a cost of the holiday. They might still save money on the deal.
Author:  bobbdobbs [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Parents could lose benefits if children play truant
Amnesia10 wrote:
big_D wrote:
Here, on the other hand, if you take a child out of school for a weeks holiday (when it is the only week where you can have a holiday, for example), then you are liable to fines and a visit from social services, if the school doesn't agree to it - which they usually don't. I think the fine is something like 40€ a day.

You see that is something that I object to. When I was at school my family ran a hotel so the summer was their peak period. If they were restricted to a family holiday then I would never have experienced foreign travel. What about low income families? Should their kids also miss out because they cannot afford summer prices? The solution is for kids to take homework or have to catch up when they get back. Fines are just a revenue raiser. The rich would just factor it in as a cost of the holiday. They might still save money on the deal.

Simple, no child is allowed to have a holiday outside of the holiday period. With fines that are proportional to the income of the parents. So if the rich wish to take Johnny out of school to have that cheaper holiday they lose out because of the fine.
If you cant afford a holiday in the summer period.. oh deary me my bleeding heart is aching so much. Tough, life isn't fair. Deal with it or save up for longer until you can afford it. A holiday abroad (or somewhere else in the UK) is not some right that you have to have.
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Parents could lose benefits if children play truant
What you fail to appreciate is that this issue is climbing higher and higher up the income scale. Wages are stagnant and how long before only higher rate tax payers can afford holidays altogether? The nation needs creativity and a regimented mentality kills that. That is a disastrous state for a nation. You need people who have different experiences and attitudes to get the best. If everyone is stuck in schools all that does is drive up holiday prices at the summer still higher as the demand will be concentrated in a small period. Blindly following rules is just as bad. We need flexibility in the system.
Author:  bobbdobbs [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Parents could lose benefits if children play truant
Amnesia10 wrote:
What you fail to appreciate is that this issue is climbing higher and higher up the income scale.
Doesn't matter if you cant afford the holiday.. tough.


Amnesia10 wrote:
Wages are stagnant and how long before only higher rate tax payers can afford holidays altogether?
you go for cheaper holidays, the 2 weeks in Spain or Disneyland aren't a right.

Amnesia10 wrote:
The nation needs creativity and a regimented mentality kills that. That is a disastrous state for a nation. You need people who have different experiences and attitudes to get the best.
Having 2 weeks in a family resort doesn't really give you that much of an experience, when the vast majority of people who go on these holidays stay in the resort, do not intermingle with the locals or get to know the local culture.

Amnesia10 wrote:
If everyone is stuck in schools all that does is drive up holiday prices at the summer still higher as the demand will be concentrated in a small period. Blindly following rules is just as bad. We need flexibility in the system.
If people want their children to be educated then you have to follow the rules. taking children out of their lessons just because you get a better discount, is failing them for a quick saving. If more and more people do this the peak times will just get bigger and bigger. There is a reason why they are peak because that is when the demand is.
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Parents could lose benefits if children play truant
Clearly you are not being taxed enough. ;)
Author:  bobbdobbs [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Parents could lose benefits if children play truant
Amnesia10 wrote:
Clearly you are not being taxed enough. ;)

I'm being taxed far too much but then again I dont' have children, I have private health care. I am one of those massive net givers at the moment. Long may that continue because I don't want to be a receiver as that would mean my income would have dropped massively.
Author:  paulzolo [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Parents could lose benefits if children play truant
big_D wrote:
Fogmeister wrote:
See, my reaction to reading that is something along the lines of. "at f*cking last!"

The reason we are in the state we are is because people have not been exposed to any consequences following their actions.

The sooner people begin to learn that they have to put something into the system in order to get something out of it the better.


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=53.851113,-1.531025

+1

It is the parents responsibility to ensure that the child attends school. I think, if the child skips school once or twice, then they should get a warning, but if they regularly play truant, then there should be consequences for the parents for not controlling their children.


I was thinking about this the other day - every so often the “what if” thoughts crop up. If I were a parent, and the school told me that he or she was skipping lessons, I’d bloody well ask the school if I could stay with the child during the school day. Seriously, I’d hold the little bugger’s hand between classes if they were going from rooms to lessons too.

I know schools have limited space - other half’s school has to cope with the adult helpers for various special needs children, but sanctions against any parent should involve the parent being more involved with the school. I bet if I were doing the hand holding bit, I’d end up as a teaching assistant down the line, or certainly helping with other children’s reading or something. That’s my own sensibilities.

So if a child is truanting, make the parents accompany them and stay with them at school. They’ll soon get the message. Working parents will lose income because they will not be able to go to work, unemployed parents may well end up with some kind of paid work at the school. It would certainly give them some kind of responsible work experience that would look good to an employer.
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Parents could lose benefits if children play truant
bobbdobbs wrote:
Amnesia10 wrote:
Clearly you are not being taxed enough. ;)

I'm being taxed far too much but then again I dont' have children, I have private health care. I am one of those massive net givers at the moment. Long may that continue because I don't want to be a receiver as that would mean my income would have dropped massively.

Yes but if your income is higher than most then you have more options when it comes to health care which others do not have. Don't forget that you also benefited from the system that you are now paying for. The whole welfare system is a safety net. Like insurance you pay in, hoping not to have to make a claim on. I have a friend who lost his job in the construction industry when they were making layoffs and he had a very tough time getting any benefits for the period that he was looking. He was classed as self employed and not eligible for several months. The system needs to have some flexibility.

As for kids who are truant there could be many reasons for it. Simply punishing the family will just make matters worse. These kids will end up being dumped on social services and they make the situation worse for the kids. You only have to see the crime statistics for that. Some kids are simply not academic. These should be given support to go to technical college from 14 to do a vocational course. It is better that they can get an apprenticeship and a skill than vegetate in a school system that does not suit their needs.
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