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| Here we go again.... http://www.x404.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=14871 |
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| Author: | dogbert10 [ Fri Sep 30, 2011 12:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Here we go again.... |
It seems the EU isn't satisfied with taking/wasting billions of our hard-earned pounds, they're now threatening to take us to court for stopping benefits to people who move here without actually contributing anything. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15120522 I note the use of the words "mobile workers" in the EU response, so strictly speaking, if you come here with no intention of working, then you're not a "worker". |
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| Author: | Linux_User [ Fri Sep 30, 2011 12:56 pm ] | |||||||||
| Post subject: | Re: Here we go again.... | |||||||||
I'm with the EU Commission - EU nationals are entitled to the same benefits as British citizens; in return I expect the same treatment as French nationals in France, Germans in Germany etc. My point is especially salient in light of this:
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| Author: | adidan [ Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Here we go again.... |
I agree with EU citizens receiving the same rights and benefits as we so. I would expect the same in another EU country. However, that said, my GF was looking on a Finnish forum not long back and there was a woman asking about how to get benefits if she came to the UK with her husband and child. Benefits for all of them. Thankfully the rest of the forum were pretty much outraged that they would even consider moving without a job, especially with a kid. I do think the EU as a whole should look into that. |
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| Author: | jonbwfc [ Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Here we go again.... |
There's bound to be trouble if you have harmonization of benefit entitlement without harmonization of benefit value. If you are in country A and you can travel to any of countries B,C and D and claim whatever the local benefits are while you look for employment (or, well, don't) which are you going to choose? You're going to choose whichever of B,C or D gives you the best benefits - possibly if you're not that smart you're not even going to take cost of living into account. The problem is everybody else in countries A,B,C and D are coming to exactly the same conclusion, so you get 'benefit migration' that's almost entirely one way. Nobody is going to go from claiming benefit in on country to claiming benefit in another where they pay you half as much unless they have a really good reason to. That's just against human nature. The only ways to stop that happening are a) Harmonize benefit rates throughout the EU - maybe apply a multiplyer based on the relative cost of a known basket of basic goods. b) Change the rules so that if you claim benefit in another country, you get the converted value of the benefit rate in whatever your country of origin is. a) is 'migration neutral' where as b) would discourage migration to countries with a higher cost of living without employment already available. In theory of course within the Euro zone this shouldn't be a factor, because one Euro is one Euro wherever you go. In the real world, because a Euro in Greece won't buy you the same as a Euro in Germany, this is laughable. Add in the fact you have some countries like the UK which are in the EC but haven't adopted the Euro and the whole idea is, to put it bluntly, buggered. Nobody with a basic grasp of economics and psychology would say a system of Benefit entitlement harmonization within the EC without accompanying benefit value harmonization is going to do anything but cause a very divisive form of mass migration. Jon |
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| Author: | hifidelity2 [ Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Here we go again.... |
The other question is how well do the various countries benefits agencies talk to each other Start in Home Country and claim benefits While doing so arrange the same in other countries esp if you don’t need to be physically present to get the benefits are the initial sign on |
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| Author: | l3v1ck [ Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Here we go again.... |
Solution: massively cut benefit payouts to everyone in the UK. Stops foreigners getting less than us, saves money and might encourage people to try and work. |
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| Author: | forquare1 [ Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Here we go again.... |
I think you've got to look at why they are in the UK, or to put it more generically, why EU citizen X in in EU country Y. If they have never had a job in said country, why did they move? Is it cheaper where they are now and they hoped they could live for longer while searching for work? If it comes down to the fact they citizen X moved to country Y because they believed that the government would give them benefits then they shouldn't receive them IMO. Or perhaps put in place a scheme where if citizen X from N is in Y, then Ns government should pay the benefits. Equally if citizen B from Y is in Q, Ys government should pay up? |
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| Author: | Amnesia10 [ Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:21 pm ] | |||||||||
| Post subject: | Re: Here we go again.... | |||||||||
Yes but that would also hit the disabled and many use that money to pay for care. So put them all in hospitals or just leave them on the streets to die? |
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| Author: | rustybucket [ Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:10 pm ] | |||||||||
| Post subject: | Re: Here we go again.... | |||||||||
Try and work how? In the special, magical jobs that don't exist? That's a good idea - I think I'll apply for the position of Unicorn Salesman. |
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| Author: | adidan [ Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:34 pm ] | |||||||||
| Post subject: | Re: Here we go again.... | |||||||||
That position's already been taken. How about you take your Doctorate and Degree and apply for the Unicorn Pooper Scooper job that's still going. The best thing is why don't you do it for free, then you'll be contributing to the big society? |
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| Author: | JJW009 [ Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:08 pm ] | |||||||||
| Post subject: | Re: Here we go again.... | |||||||||
That's already the case with health care. I'm surprised it's not the same with benefits. |
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| Author: | adidan [ Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:15 pm ] | ||||||||||||||||||
| Post subject: | Re: Here we go again.... | ||||||||||||||||||
That would be sensible so I doubt it would ever happen. |
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| Author: | ProfessorF [ Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Here we go again.... |
Is dogbert10 an avatar of Richard Littlejohn? |
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| Author: | big_D [ Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Here we go again.... |
The UK is getting off lightly, I think. AFAIK, they only have to provide UK benefits to EU citizens. In Germany, I would have gotten nearly 35,000€ a year in unemployment benefit, when I moved here, if I had claimed. In Germany, you get 60% of your final gross salary as unemployment benefit (not taxed, so about 5% less than you would get by working, taking average tax rates here). |
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| Author: | adidan [ Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:19 am ] | |||||||||
| Post subject: | Re: Here we go again.... | |||||||||
I agree. It's similar in Finland, for a while you get a % of what you were earning rather that a strict set figure. |
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