http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8116497.stm



Silly cow, how about the freedom NOT TO GET PREACHED AT! I'm guessing she would have also approved of the sending of thousands of bibles to muslims affected by the boxing day tsunami....

Ah well, maybe when she's ill in hospital one day, I could offer to go along and sacrifice a chicken to Baron Samedi for her, maybe offer to exorcise her demons, or even conduct some wiccan spells. Anything that I know would offend her christian beliefs, just as hearing about her christian beliefs would offend me.

Why is it that religious types constantly feel like they're being persecuted? Secular life for ALL in the public sphere, and religion and faith only in your private life.....what's so hard to grasp??

Doesn't sound like a bad thing...

Nurse: Are you religious?
Patient: No
Nurse: OK then.

People who do have a faith may feel better being able to talk about it. If you're not religious, I don't see the problem with saying no...
By the sounds of it, she would be happy if someone who came from the Pagan faith came in, the idea being to introduce some comfort into those that might want to talk about XYZ in a religious/spiritual way.

Perhaps it should be judged on a patient by patient basis...It's all very well saying that it should be up to the patients to ask for it, but if they don't know it's there, or feel too timid to ask then it's not helping them.

If people feel the need, they should be able to ask for a chaplain or padre. If a nurse asked me if I was religious I would be deeply offended; it would suggest to me that she felt that there was some spiritual assistance she/he could offer that would help me recover. The fact that there are people in the NHS who believe that such spiritual assistance can help medically fills me with dread.

The ONLY assistance I want from NHS staff is medical, scientifically provable treatments. I don't even want the offer of anything else. If I want spiritual help, I speak to someone who is "trained" in it....not some jack-of-all-trades nurse who wants to offer extras on the side from his/her medical training...

Oh please, you're over dramatising it - it's of no more significance than being asked if you'd like sugar in your tea or if you prefer white or brown bread; yes the white's tastier toast but the wholemeal's the healthier option, what do you do?
They'll still look after you and give you the medical attention you need, it's not an either/or situation.

It sounds like you would rather be treated by a robot who shoves the necessary pills down your throat at designated times and smacks your wrist when it thinks you've had too many grapes!



Do you not think that if someone is comfortable and happy then they may respond to medical treatment better? If making someone comfortable is to offer religious or spiritual counsel then what's wrong in that? As I said, perhaps it should be suggested by an educated guess, where they think someone might not know or may be too afraid to ask...
I doubt you'll find many NHS staff who agree that a patient should be as uncomfortable and as miserable as possible to aid in a full recovery...

It's scary finding yourself in hospital. Outside of visiting times, you're on your own with just other ill strangers and the staff for company. The hospital chaplain is often busy and can't make it to everyone's bedside when they're needed.

If you have a faith, it would be a comfort to you in trying times. For this reason, though I firmly believe (heh!) religion has no place in most walks of life, it shouldn't be denied anyone if they want it.

I think it is more about approach.

I'm sure many patients don't know about religeous services in hospitals or the availability of an Imam, Padre, Priest, Rabbi etc.

If the nurse asked if the patient would like her to arrange for the relevant religious personage to come by, or whether they would like to talk, then I would be fine with that. No different to asking if you want a telephone or TV in your room / by your bed.

If they are shoving it down your throat, babbling on about God and religion and prayers, whether the patient wants to hear about it or not, then no, I think that is wrong.

Do they have appropriate services for members of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

What, no? Ah yes, it will be massively biased in favour of Christianity and Islam.

To respond to several posts at once (and to save "pyramidising" this thread!) :

I expect a nurse/doctor/anaesthetist etc to provide solely medical care; that's what they are trained, at great expense, to do. I don't doubt that our NHS medical staff are some of the best in the world and I take pride in the NHS in being able to do so.

I expect a chaplain/imam/rabbi/pastafarian to provide solely spiritual care; that's their vocation in life, and that's their day-in, day-out function. If any hospital feels the need to add such spiritual care to it's range of functions, then that is down to it's board to decide...just as the boards currently decide on what forms of medical care they will provide. I will not touch on funding for spiritual care in hopitals as that's a whole other argument!

Just as I would not expect a diagnosis from the Archbishop of Canterbury, I would not expect any kind of spiritual offerings from Lord Winston. If he decides to offer it outwith of his function as a medical practitioner, all well and good. It's my right to ignore it. Just as it's my right to not receive any spiritual assistance while I'm lying in a hosptial bed. I always believed that medical staff were trained to rely upon their medical training and not the expectation that interventionary prayer will help.

I know that it's going over the top to expect that every nurse would be a bible-thumping preacher....and I doubt that there would be more than a handful or cases each year where a patient received such attention that was unwanted or unnecessary. But in our happily secular society, where everyone is free to practice their religion as long as it doesn't impact on others, religion and the NHS should not mix.

Unfortunately it is not so easy for a Christian/Jew/Muslim to separate work and religion. It is a core belief of all the Abrahamic religions that one's work forms a central part of one's worship. However IMO some have gone too far.

St Francis of Assisi said, "Preach the gospel always; if necessary use words." There is a peculiar mode of thought prevalent in church circles that insists that spreading the gospel means vocally ramming it down the throat of an unsuspecting victim. This is not the christian approach.

Now I know some of you don't like to see scripture but I actually sort-of agree with F_A_F on a few points. Try these on for size:
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I firmly believe that there is room for spiritual assistance from medical staff. However, I struggle to think of any legitimate circumstance in which nurse-initiated contact would be effective. Much more effective IMO would be superlatively kind, loving care accompanied by exquisite patience and lending a genuine, humble, listening ear. Failing that, offering a patient a range of counselling options/someone to talk to e.g. Non-religious, religious, male, female would also work better. It would also ensure that you engage the patient in a way that gives them control over what happens to them which is, IMO, the reason for this entire debate.

If a patient were to openly ask me about my faith you'd better bet I'd give them as full and honest an answer as I thought they could handle. However, those wanting to be able to speak to patients on this matter should ask themselves, "Who am I really trying to help - the patient or myself?"

That's my opinion anyway.

I dunno - if I was asked by a Doctor or nurse if I was religious, it would appear to me as if the problem I was being treated for was far more severe than previously thought. I would imagine that this wold put the willies up many people.

i can imagine that would be very comforting just as they are about to put you under for the operation and they are all around you

"let us pray" yes very comforting indeed …

I you have no faith, then what's to be worried about?

Nothing - but it’s bothersome if staff turn on the religion, the wrong message may be conveyed to the patient, religious or atheist.

I remember when I was ill about a decade ago, and my dad let slip that the school where he worked was saying prayers for me during staff meetings. That did nothing to calm my nerves (which were very much on the edge of reason at that point), nor did it help me feel that I was recover. After all, the last time I heard of such things was when my gradad had cancer, and I gather that there was a lot of praying going on. He died - which was going to happen prayers or not. At the time, I questioned my survivability anyway (survivability was always going to happen, as my doctor kept assuring me, but the illness weakened me mentally as well as physically), so this did nothing to help me.

I can only imagine that people who pray for others do so more for their own comfort. Even today, when I’m better and firing on all cylinders, I would be very disturbed by the idea of religion seeping in to my medical care.

Not all treatment is scientifically proven or has a known basis. There are lots of 'experimental' treatments where the underlying mechanisms are unknown, or the outcomes are uncertain. Even these are offered to those for whom there is no 'proven' treatment.




Firstly, an anaesthetist is a doctor.
Secondly, we are (and have been for a long time) encouraged to provide a holistic approach. This means not treating the illness but treating the patient by assessment of mental, physical, psychological and social states.

Example: An elderly lady breaks her hip after a mechanical fall. The best treatment is to fix the broken hip within 48 hours. But if you assess the patient properly, you will find she is demented, has poor mobility and remains bedbound, requiring carers for everything. The best treatment may actually be to remove both 'balls' of the ball-and-socket-joint of the hip so the patient can't break her hips ever again.

All patients routinely get asked about their religion when they're initially seen by a nurse and this is tied in to the chaplain service which can arrange the appropriate provisions.

As far as personal experience goes, I've had many patients ask about my own beliefs when they're facing a dilemma. I tell them the truth. Sometimes it helps them rationalise everything or put a different perspective on things. Other times it may (seemingly) have no effect. But some people do still like to talk about it. Others may want to talk (with a medical staff) but may not feel able to speak/ask, especially if they are unsure of whether you're religious or not and even more so if you appear to be of a different religion.

I think they have the right kind of idea but going the wrong way about it.