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paulzolo
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:27 pm Posts: 12251
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So, has Cameron saved us from a fate worse than death, or has he just consigned us to one? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16104275I think we’re going to see a two-tier Europe. Our politicians also have to drop the conceit that we actually mean anything on the global stage. We’re the USA’s aircraft carrier, and now we’ll be in the outside looking in on the Europe project. I think we’ve been consigned to a bigger struggle all because Cameron wants to please a few Eurosceptic backbenchers in his party.
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Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:05 am |
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HeatherKay
Moderator
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:13 pm Posts: 7262 Location: Here, but not all there.
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And don't forget those all-important bankers in the City of London. You remember, the ones who helped create the crisis we're in. 
_________________My Flickr | Snaptophobic BloggageHeather Kay: modelling details that matter. "Let my windows be open to receive new ideas but let me also be strong enough not to be blown away by them." - Mahatma Gandhi.
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Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:35 am |
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Spreadie
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:06 pm Posts: 6355 Location: IoW
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Is that the same City of London corporation that is not bound by taxation laws that apply to the rest of the UK? I don't understand why some people are hailing this as a strong performance by the PM. He fought for but didn't get the concessions we wanted, so the veto wasn't a masterstroke of political manoeuvring; he simply didn't have a choice.
_________________ Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes; after that, who cares?! He's a mile away and you've got his shoes!
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Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:43 am |
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jonbwfc
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:26 pm Posts: 17040
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I think I've made it clear before now that I'm no friend to the banking fraternity, but none of the stuff I've seen so far that was proposed in the new treaty would really have done much to curb the excesses of the city. The transaction tax in particular has been utterly mis-sold; it was much more about the EU trying to grab a nice slice of the money the financial sector makes than any sort of reduction in the recklessness of stock brokers. It may have deflated the number of transactions happening for a short while but they would soon have recovered. Just that the ECB would now be making several tens of billions a year extra out of it. The financial sector needs regulating, of that I am in no doubt. However I very much doubt the Tobin Tax would have had anything to do with that other than in the very short term. In fact, to be honest, 'the crisis we are in' - if you mean specifically the issue with sovereign debt in the euro zone - is not in fact primarily to do with the markets. They're contributors certainly but the major cause of the current crisis was the profligacy of the southern european states tied to the awful dereliction of duty which allowed them to enter the Euro in the first place when they were in fact economically totally unsuited to do so. All the financial sector are doing is using it as an opportunity to make some cash. You don't blame the vultures for the carcass, you blame what killed it in the first place.
Last edited by jonbwfc on Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:58 am |
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HeatherKay
Moderator
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:13 pm Posts: 7262 Location: Here, but not all there.
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Actually, I wasn't referring to the Euro crash-and-burn business, but the wider global economy crash-and-burn which kicked off in 2008. That, if memory serves, was caused by unregulated financial institutions getting out of control. But, yeah, I take your point. I am unclear about the whole debate. The media doesn't really help to make it clearer. Things are in a pretty pickle, and it seems to me the Euro project is unlikely to survive much longer, despite the desperate moves being made in Brussels now. As to what can be done about the problem, don't ask me. I'm just here for the ride. 
_________________My Flickr | Snaptophobic BloggageHeather Kay: modelling details that matter. "Let my windows be open to receive new ideas but let me also be strong enough not to be blown away by them." - Mahatma Gandhi.
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Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:05 am |
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paulzolo
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:27 pm Posts: 12251
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I really don’t think that any one of those politicians at the summit had a clue about how the system actually works. Brian Cox knows more about quantum physics than that lot know about economies.  They should take the Euro to CERN, and Large Hadron Collider it’s arse for a few days to see how it actually ticks. Then, maybe then, someone will see how to fix the mess. Right now, it’s just a load of suits poking the thing with sharp sticks in the hope that something good happens. And David Cameron. Doing nothing, as usual.
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Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:54 am |
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jonbwfc
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:26 pm Posts: 17040
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To be fair to Tory Boy, saying 'no' is a valid answer, which the last lot should have perhaps have realised on a few more occasions. However I personally doubt he's doing it for the good of the country as much for the good of his mates in the city.
Jon
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Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:02 am |
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bobbdobbs
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:10 pm Posts: 5490 Location: just behind you!
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Its probably both, A tobin style tax would hit London the most out of Europe and would help give those businesses that can relocate a reason to relocate, to a lower cost base. That would lead to a loss in tax revenue from the share dealing and financial services and jobs, a lot of jobs.
_________________Finally joined Flickr
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Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:27 am |
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paulzolo
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:27 pm Posts: 12251
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 A job well done, and no doubt a nice directorship is in place further down the line.
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Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:02 pm |
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dogbert10
Doesn't have much of a life
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:23 pm Posts: 638 Location: 3959 miles from the centre of the Earth - give or take a bit
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I'm glad DC summoned up some backbone - the EU as it stands is a mess and the less we get drawn in the better. Trying to get all the countries in Europe to sing from the same hymn sheet was never going to work unless they'd sorted out individual government spending right at the beginning. Letting Greece/Spain/Ireland run up massive debt without doing something to curb it is just gross mismanagement. The EU should have stuck to being a free trade organization rather than trying to turn itself into the USE.
Oh, and why doesn't someone reform the CAP? Because France wouldn't like that and so they'd veto any attempt to do so. So why should we roll over and let the EU control our finances?
_________________ i7 860 @ 3.5GHz, GTX275, 4GB DDR3
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Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:09 pm |
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koli
Doesn't have much of a life
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:12 pm Posts: 1171
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Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:09 pm |
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jonlumb
Spends far too much time on here
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:44 pm Posts: 4141 Location: Exeter
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Yes because we genuinely expect people who've spent their lives in the graphical design industry to be resolving large scale economic problems that even people who've studied economics their whole lives cannot resolve. 
_________________ "The woman is a riddle inside a mystery wrapped in an enigma I've had sex with."
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Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:11 pm |
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HeatherKay
Moderator
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:13 pm Posts: 7262 Location: Here, but not all there.
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Thanks for that. Remind to edit some of your quotes in future. 
_________________My Flickr | Snaptophobic BloggageHeather Kay: modelling details that matter. "Let my windows be open to receive new ideas but let me also be strong enough not to be blown away by them." - Mahatma Gandhi.
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Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:20 pm |
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bobbdobbs
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:10 pm Posts: 5490 Location: just behind you!
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Yet we expect politicians who have no real background or experience to do it. its a mad mad mad world
_________________Finally joined Flickr
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Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:27 pm |
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Spreadie
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:06 pm Posts: 6355 Location: IoW
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Brilliant! Good to see the smirks remain.
_________________ Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes; after that, who cares?! He's a mile away and you've got his shoes!
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Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:31 pm |
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