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David Cameron vetoes EU-wide treaty change
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Author:  paulzolo [ Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:05 am ]
Post subject:  David Cameron vetoes EU-wide treaty change
So, has Cameron saved us from a fate worse than death, or has he just consigned us to one?

Quote:
Measures to tackle the crisis in Europe will continue without the UK after David Cameron vetoed a treaty change.

Mr Cameron said it was not in Britain's interest "so I didn't sign up to it".

But France's President Sarkozy said his "unacceptable" demands for exemptions over financial services blocked the chance of a full treaty.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16104275

I think we’re going to see a two-tier Europe. Our politicians also have to drop the conceit that we actually mean anything on the global stage. We’re the USA’s aircraft carrier, and now we’ll be in the outside looking in on the Europe project. I think we’ve been consigned to a bigger struggle all because Cameron wants to please a few Eurosceptic backbenchers in his party.
Author:  HeatherKay [ Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: David Cameron vetoes EU-wide treaty change
paulzolo wrote:
I think we’ve been consigned to a bigger struggle all because Cameron wants to please a few Eurosceptic backbenchers in his party.


And don't forget those all-important bankers in the City of London. You remember, the ones who helped create the crisis we're in. :roll:
Author:  Spreadie [ Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: David Cameron vetoes EU-wide treaty change
HeatherKay wrote:
paulzolo wrote:
I think we’ve been consigned to a bigger struggle all because Cameron wants to please a few Eurosceptic backbenchers in his party.


And don't forget those all-important bankers in the City of London. You remember, the ones who helped create the crisis we're in. :roll:

Is that the same City of London corporation that is not bound by taxation laws that apply to the rest of the UK? :roll:

I don't understand why some people are hailing this as a strong performance by the PM. He fought for but didn't get the concessions we wanted, so the veto wasn't a masterstroke of political manoeuvring; he simply didn't have a choice.
Author:  jonbwfc [ Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: David Cameron vetoes EU-wide treaty change
HeatherKay wrote:
paulzolo wrote:
I think we’ve been consigned to a bigger struggle all because Cameron wants to please a few Eurosceptic backbenchers in his party.

And don't forget those all-important bankers in the City of London. You remember, the ones who helped create the crisis we're in. :roll:

I think I've made it clear before now that I'm no friend to the banking fraternity, but none of the stuff I've seen so far that was proposed in the new treaty would really have done much to curb the excesses of the city. The transaction tax in particular has been utterly mis-sold; it was much more about the EU trying to grab a nice slice of the money the financial sector makes than any sort of reduction in the recklessness of stock brokers. It may have deflated the number of transactions happening for a short while but they would soon have recovered. Just that the ECB would now be making several tens of billions a year extra out of it. The financial sector needs regulating, of that I am in no doubt. However I very much doubt the Tobin Tax would have had anything to do with that other than in the very short term.

In fact, to be honest, 'the crisis we are in' - if you mean specifically the issue with sovereign debt in the euro zone - is not in fact primarily to do with the markets. They're contributors certainly but the major cause of the current crisis was the profligacy of the southern european states tied to the awful dereliction of duty which allowed them to enter the Euro in the first place when they were in fact economically totally unsuited to do so. All the financial sector are doing is using it as an opportunity to make some cash. You don't blame the vultures for the carcass, you blame what killed it in the first place.
Author:  HeatherKay [ Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: David Cameron vetoes EU-wide treaty change
jonbwfc wrote:
In fact, to be honest, 'the crisis we are in'


Actually, I wasn't referring to the Euro crash-and-burn business, but the wider global economy crash-and-burn which kicked off in 2008. That, if memory serves, was caused by unregulated financial institutions getting out of control.

But, yeah, I take your point.

I am unclear about the whole debate. The media doesn't really help to make it clearer. Things are in a pretty pickle, and it seems to me the Euro project is unlikely to survive much longer, despite the desperate moves being made in Brussels now. As to what can be done about the problem, don't ask me. I'm just here for the ride. :|
Author:  paulzolo [ Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: David Cameron vetoes EU-wide treaty change
HeatherKay wrote:
jonbwfc wrote:
In fact, to be honest, 'the crisis we are in'


Actually, I wasn't referring to the Euro crash-and-burn business, but the wider global economy crash-and-burn which kicked off in 2008. That, if memory serves, was caused by unregulated financial institutions getting out of control.

But, yeah, I take your point.

I am unclear about the whole debate. The media doesn't really help to make it clearer. Things are in a pretty pickle, and it seems to me the Euro project is unlikely to survive much longer, despite the desperate moves being made in Brussels now. As to what can be done about the problem, don't ask me. I'm just here for the ride. :|


I really don’t think that any one of those politicians at the summit had a clue about how the system actually works.

Brian Cox knows more about quantum physics than that lot know about economies. :lol: They should take the Euro to CERN, and Large Hadron Collider it’s arse for a few days to see how it actually ticks. Then, maybe then, someone will see how to fix the mess. Right now, it’s just a load of suits poking the thing with sharp sticks in the hope that something good happens.

And David Cameron. Doing nothing, as usual.
Author:  jonbwfc [ Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: David Cameron vetoes EU-wide treaty change
To be fair to Tory Boy, saying 'no' is a valid answer, which the last lot should have perhaps have realised on a few more occasions. However I personally doubt he's doing it for the good of the country as much for the good of his mates in the city.

Jon
Author:  bobbdobbs [ Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: David Cameron vetoes EU-wide treaty change
jonbwfc wrote:
To be fair to Tory Boy, saying 'no' is a valid answer, which the last lot should have perhaps have realised on a few more occasions. However I personally doubt he's doing it for the good of the country as much for the good of his mates in the city.

Jon

Its probably both, A tobin style tax would hit London the most out of Europe and would help give those businesses that can relocate a reason to relocate, to a lower cost base. That would lead to a loss in tax revenue from the share dealing and financial services and jobs, a lot of jobs.
Author:  paulzolo [ Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: David Cameron vetoes EU-wide treaty change
Image

A job well done, and no doubt a nice directorship is in place further down the line.
Author:  dogbert10 [ Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: David Cameron vetoes EU-wide treaty change
I'm glad DC summoned up some backbone - the EU as it stands is a mess and the less we get drawn in the better. Trying to get all the countries in Europe to sing from the same hymn sheet was never going to work unless they'd sorted out individual government spending right at the beginning. Letting Greece/Spain/Ireland run up massive debt without doing something to curb it is just gross mismanagement. The EU should have stuck to being a free trade organization rather than trying to turn itself into the USE.

Oh, and why doesn't someone reform the CAP? Because France wouldn't like that and so they'd veto any attempt to do so. So why should we roll over and let the EU control our finances?
Author:  koli [ Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: David Cameron vetoes EU-wide treaty change
HeatherKay wrote:
As to what can be done about the problem, don't ask me. I'm here just to complain without offering a solution. :|

fixed
Author:  jonlumb [ Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: David Cameron vetoes EU-wide treaty change
koli wrote:
HeatherKay wrote:
As to what can be done about the problem, don't ask me. I'm here just to complain without offering a solution. :|

fixed


Yes because we genuinely expect people who've spent their lives in the graphical design industry to be resolving large scale economic problems that even people who've studied economics their whole lives cannot resolve. :roll:
Author:  HeatherKay [ Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: David Cameron vetoes EU-wide treaty change
koli wrote:
HeatherKay wrote:
As to what can be done about the problem, don't ask me. I'm here just to complain without offering a solution. :|

fixed


Thanks for that. Remind to edit some of your quotes in future. :roll:
Author:  bobbdobbs [ Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: David Cameron vetoes EU-wide treaty change
jonlumb wrote:
koli wrote:
HeatherKay wrote:
As to what can be done about the problem, don't ask me. I'm here just to complain without offering a solution. :|

fixed


Yes because we genuinely expect people who've spent their lives in the graphical design industry to be resolving large scale economic problems that even people who've studied economics their whole lives cannot resolve. :roll:

Yet we expect politicians who have no real background or experience to do it.

its a mad mad mad world
Author:  Spreadie [ Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: David Cameron vetoes EU-wide treaty change
paulzolo wrote:
A job well done, and no doubt a nice directorship is in place further down the line.

[photo snipped]

Brilliant!

Good to see the smirks remain.
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