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Widespread Celebrations But No Pardon For Turing http://www.x404.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=15812 |
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Author: | ProfessorF [ Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:55 pm ] | |||||||||
Post subject: | Widespread Celebrations But No Pardon For Turing | |||||||||
http://www.i-programmer.info/news/82-heritage/3735-widespread-celebrations-but-no-pardon-for-turing.html |
Author: | adidan [ Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:31 pm ] | |||||||||
Post subject: | Re: Widespread Celebrations But No Pardon For Turing | |||||||||
Yes and he would have also known that he wasn't able to do anything about his sexuality even if he wanted to. One of the lamest excuses I've heard. Seriously that man was a frickin genius and we still sh!t on his memory. |
Author: | ShockWaffle [ Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:55 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Widespread Celebrations But No Pardon For Turing |
Posthumus pardons are for people convicted of grave crimes such as murder, armed robbery, treason or terrorism who die before they can prove in court that they did not commit them. In such cases it is terribly important to their surviving relatives to clear their names for what is still a crime of which they are wrongly accused. Turing's life was ruined by this prosecution, but this judgment can't compensate him in any way for that. His legacy and reputation are unaffected either way. He wasn't a falsely accused sodomite, he was a gay man who lived in an unforgiving era, so a pardon does not obliterate anybody's shame. Worse, it highlights a regrettable tendency to focus on the celebrity victim of an injustice that affected a huge number of people one way or another. The Lords' position is correct; history is there to learn from, apologising for it devalues that. Turing was just one of countless people who suffered horribly because they differ from the norm in some way. Nobody disagrees that this was a terrible thing, but the record of that shameful deed should stand because the shame that once was his has shifted to his accusers and should not be revoked. |
Author: | jonbwfc [ Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:51 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Widespread Celebrations But No Pardon For Turing |
Admired as he is, he's dead. I don't see how pardoning him 50 years after it was all over really proves anything. His indirect descendants know his achievements vastly outweigh his criminal conviction. Everyone knows that if he had lived today he would have been accepted. A pardon changes none of these facts. It's just pandering to a rather needy desire in some people to 'prove' to everyone that we're even more 'right' now because we were 'wrong' then. Let the past be the past. You don't learn from it by trying to rewrite it, you learn from it by not making the same mistakes again. Jon |
Author: | big_D [ Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:11 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Widespread Celebrations But No Pardon For Turing |
I do understand why they are not giving the pardon, he was guilty as accused. The fact that the law was injust is, unfortunately neither here nor there. Dura lex, sed lex. I also think, that they have a point. If we expunge our history, we learn nothing. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. - George Santayana. |
Author: | adidan [ Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:45 am ] | |||||||||
Post subject: | Re: Widespread Celebrations But No Pardon For Turing | |||||||||
It's not so much the pardon it's the:
That is lame, implying that he could have controlled his actions and in doing so, if every gay person had found able to do that, no changes to the law would have ever been made. |
Author: | jonlumb [ Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:42 am ] | ||||||||||||||||||
Post subject: | Re: Widespread Celebrations But No Pardon For Turing | ||||||||||||||||||
That's actually quite a dangerous argument to make; rather implies that one should be able to give in to any sort of desire they might have... |
Author: | jonbwfc [ Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:25 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Widespread Celebrations But No Pardon For Turing |
I have to agree. Regardless of the fact we now view the laws of the time as wrong, 'I couldn't help myself' has never been a valid defense in law and frankly never should be. Maybe a mitigating circumstance with respect to sentencing but never a grounds for acquittal. Jon |
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