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| Is Apple thinking of the children? http://www.x404.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=16309 |
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| Author: | pcernie [ Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Is Apple thinking of the children? |
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/34 ... purchases/ 'Jesus Christ, can't we just claim we own the patents for kids?!' |
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| Author: | big_D [ Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Apple thinking of the children? |
If Apple was thinking of the children, children's games wouldn't be allowed to have in-app purchaes. That said, what sort of parent lets a small child use their iPhone/iPad unattended, lets them have access to the iTunes account and doesn't disable in-app purchases? The game developers are the real scum, but both Apple and the parents are also at fault. |
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| Author: | timark_uk [ Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Apple thinking of the children? |
Dave, it's nothing to do with Apple how parents let their devices be used by their kids. If the parents don't disable in-app purchasing (like you said) or share their iTunes Store password with their kids, the how can Apple be blamed for that? Mark |
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| Author: | belchingmatt [ Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Apple thinking of the children? |
Until the child becomes an adult the parent's should accept total responsibility for everything they do. Maybe except for when others are supervising them such as teachers and youth group leaders. I doubt these parents would give their kids their credit card and PIN number, and this legal action is just them trying to cover and excuse their own stupidity. |
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| Author: | Spreadie [ Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Apple thinking of the children? |
So Apple is headed to court because of the acts / omissions of stupid parents? Another non-story. |
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| Author: | jonbwfc [ Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:55 am ] | |||||||||
| Post subject: | Re: Is Apple thinking of the children? | |||||||||
+1. 'A failure on your part does not constitute a lack of planning on mine.' |
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| Author: | cloaked_wolf [ Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Apple thinking of the children? |
I read about this elsewhere but it had more info. Basically it was before Apple put a password up for in-app purchases. At the moment, if you want to unlock something, when you click on it, a dialogue box pops up asking for the password (just like when you download an app). At the time, this was not enabled. Parents in all likelihood had no idea about this. I agree that parents should not let kids use their devices but given that it happens, there should be safety mechanisms eg turn on a child lock or similar to stop kids doing anything other than play child-rated games. Kinda like airport mode but with a password. |
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| Author: | belchingmatt [ Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Apple thinking of the children? |
I think it is up to the parents to know the capabilities and dangers of anything they give their children, and not rely on the nanny state or manufacturers to ensure these safeguards are in place. Take some responsibility ffs. |
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| Author: | jonbwfc [ Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:39 pm ] | ||||||||||||||||||
| Post subject: | Re: Is Apple thinking of the children? | ||||||||||||||||||
No, I don't think that's how it worked. What it used to do was, when you paid for something, it would always ask you for the password the first time, then it would remember that you had successfully authorised a payment for some period of time (I think it was about 10 minutes or so). If you paid for something else in that window it wouldn't ask you for your password again. Once that time had elapsed it would reset to asking you the password. That was for both purchase of new apps and in-app purchases (in reality the two are actually the same - the app store is itself an app of course, just one with special permissions in the file system). Obviously this was an issue - someone typed their password in to buy an app and then handed the idevice to their kid, who started the app and then immediately bought everything in the apps inline shop without it asking for the password again because the window hadn't elapsed. IIRC that was a couple of years ago and they removed the 'auth caching' with the next firmware update and added the 'no app payment allowed' restriction at the same time. Nowadays, the phone asks for the password every time you download anything from the app store - even free stuff and updates to apps you've paid for in the past. It even asks you for it when it automatically downloads something you've bought on another device, even though the only reason it knows to download it is you've just paid for it somewhere else. Basically it's now ruddy naggy because of the prior failings of dunderheads. I suspect the vast majority of Apple's customers who aren't small children would prefer it if they didn't implement some pain in the arse second auth factor because some people can't take responsibility for what their sprogs get up to.
Um, yeah, it has those. It just requires the parent to switch them on. These parents didn't. The major point of argument is whether games aimed at say the under-12's should be allowed to offer in-app purchases at all. That's a genuine point of debate. But the systems to protect the credit card owner are in the phone and it's up to parents to supervise what their children do, no-on else. You can't say 'Apple shouldn't let this happen' - it's not up to them to allow or disallow it. Any more than it's, I dunno, MacAlpine's responsibility to stop people from speeding on the motorways they build. Jon |
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| Author: | big_D [ Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:04 am ] | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Post subject: | Re: Is Apple thinking of the children? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
You are mixing my two points. Why the f' are in-app purchases allowed in a game aimed at children, who are too young to legally enter into a contract with Apple or the developer?
I really think the parents are to blame in the first part, they shouldn't be letting their kids have unattended access to their iTunes account - I argued that on other forums and go stick for it at ZDNet and El Reg. BUT, I see no case where it is acceptable to have in game purchases in childrens games, parent responsibility for their children aside, that is just predatory.
Sort of. You always had to enter a password, but when it was first introduced, you had a 15 minute window after entering the password once (E.g. downloading the app), during which you could make additional purchases without re-confirming password (E.g. buying Smurfberries or goldfish when you first enter the game). But on the other hand, it is up to the parents to ensure the children are supervised and it is up to the parents to ensure that they know how it works, especially when it is linked to their credit card or other payment method. One parent got caught out (source El Reg comments), he gave his 10 year old an iPad Touch + iTunes account with only pre-paid cards, but Apple let the account go into debt, because he had created the account using a credit card, which in the meantime had expired...  Whilst I think the parents should take responsibility for their kids actions, Apple really don't come out of this smelling like roses. They let these scheisters peddle their wares on their "protected" iTunes Store, whilst banning harmless apps for no good reason, which gives them press about how safe the walled garden is - it is, if you don't want to be confronted by satire, but you can't say the same for apps which are designed to pillage your credit card.
And it is for this period, during which the 15 minute window was there, that the parents are suing. |
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| Author: | jonbwfc [ Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:28 am ] | ||||||||||||||||||
| Post subject: | Re: Is Apple thinking of the children? | ||||||||||||||||||
What? They made the change years ago. Literally years. They've waited several years before suing? They're not helping themselves. Jon |
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| Author: | Fogmeister [ Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Apple thinking of the children? |
I don't see how it's possible for anyone to sue them? When you sign up for an iTunes account you are given full terms and conditions with details of how everything about purchasing apps and in-app purchasing works. If the parents didn't bother to read the details then how is that Apple's fault? |
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| Author: | veato [ Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Apple thinking of the children? |
Parents fault. They control the kid, their account and their device, not Apple (or seemingly not as is the case for some)! But.... I don't think games aimed at young children should have in app purchases. |
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| Author: | Fogmeister [ Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:00 am ] | |||||||||
| Post subject: | Re: Is Apple thinking of the children? | |||||||||
I would tend to agree with you and Dave on this point. But (and I know you know this already, just stating it again) that isn't the point in this case. |
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