x404.co.uk
http://www.x404.co.uk/forum/

No More Climbing Uluru??
http://www.x404.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1661
Page 1 of 2

Author:  Zippy [ Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:04 am ]
Post subject:  No More Climbing Uluru??

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/climbers-may-be-barred-from-uluru-1736427.html

Quote:
An Australian government proposal to stop people from climbing the famed Uluru, in deference to the wishes of indigenous people, sparked debate today with lawmakers opposing the plan.

A draft management plan for the Uluru-Kata Tjuta National Park called for a ban on people climbing the 348-metre (1,142 ft) rock, which is sacred to local Aborigine people and visited each year by 350,000 people, half of them from overseas.

The plan for Uluru, formerly known as Ayers Rock, could be implemented within 18 months, but must be approved by national Environment Minister Peter Garrett after a two-month public consultation, a spokesman for Garrett said.

"Kevin Rudd must veto any plans by Peter Garrett to shut down Australia's world-famous Uluru climb," said conservative politician and environment spokesman Greg Hunt.

"Visitors from around Australia and the world would be stopped from completing the majestic and exhilarating journey," Hunt said.

The world heritage-listed rock, famed for its shifting red-ochre colours, is a top tourist drawcard and is climbed by more than 100,000 people each year, despite its central desert location and against the wishes of indigenous people.

"You can't go climb on top of the Vatican, you can't go climb on top of the Buddhist temples and so on and so forth," local elder Vince Forrester from Mutitjulu township told state radio.


I'm not sure what I think.

On the one hand, it's something I'd really like to do one day, but on the other, it is an important place for the locals and I wouldn't want people climbing all over my sacred sites, but then, I prefer Avebury to Stonehenge because you can get up close and personal with the stones, but at the same time I agree that the majority of sacred sites (regardless of your persuasion) can't be climbed all over, and I'm not sure they should/would be, but most sacred sites aren't on the scale or magnitude of Uluru either....

I just don't know :shock:

Author:  Fogmeister [ Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: No More Climbing Uluru??

Quote:
The plan for Uluru, formerly known as Ayers Rock

Erm... riiiiiight, because it has only been known as Uluru very recently....:roll:

When I went there I didn't climb it. We were told about the tradition and sacredness of the site and the belief the Aboriginals have in it. We were also told that we could climb it if we wanted but none of us did.

Author:  ProfessorF [ Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: No More Climbing Uluru??

I couldn't believe that they'd got the permission to build a visitor centre, let alone climbing going on.
If it's important to the people, then we should respect that.

Author:  okenobi [ Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No More Climbing Uluru??

The beliefs of the indigenous people need to be respected. Fact. I suspect that people are annoyed because it's a landmark site and tourist draw. Therefore, as always, there's money involved.

Author:  Linux_User [ Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No More Climbing Uluru??

The people of Porthpyran consider Chapel Rock to be a site of significant cultural, historical and religious interest - when is it getting protection then? :?

Author:  ProfessorF [ Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No More Climbing Uluru??

Once they've been [LIFTED] on for centuries by the white settlers,and then spent decades seeking legal and cultural representation for the crap we put them through.

Author:  cloaked_wolf [ Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No More Climbing Uluru??

I swear I read about the planned banning of climbing Uluru years ago, in a Bill Bryson book.


The climbing of Uluru by non-indigenous people, IMO, demonstrates their attitude to the indigenous population. Imagine if people tried to climb the Kaba in Mecca.

Author:  eddie543 [ Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No More Climbing Uluru??

cloaked_wolf wrote:
Imagine if people tried to climb the Kaba in Mecca.

Hmm I can see that ending without anyone losing limbs, being stoned or shot... I love how tolerent people over there are... such worthy allies are the saudis.

Author:  Linux_User [ Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No More Climbing Uluru??

ProfessorF wrote:
Once they've been [LIFTED] on for centuries by the white settlers,and then spent decades seeking legal and cultural representation for the crap we put them through.


Cornwall's been [LIFTED] on by emmets for centuries...

Anyhoo, it's a rock. I don't see why I have to respect other people's religions, it's a ROCK. There are no gods, I don't see why I should be restricted because some other people think the rock is magical.

What's next, I can't burn bibles?

Author:  ProfessorF [ Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: No More Climbing Uluru??

Linux_User wrote:
Anyhoo, it's a rock. I don't see why I have to respect other people's religions, it's a ROCK. There are no gods, I don't see why I should be restricted because some other people think the rock is magical.

What's next, I can't burn bibles?


So why make the point about the Cornish folk earlier then?

Author:  Linux_User [ Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: No More Climbing Uluru??

ProfessorF wrote:
Linux_User wrote:
Anyhoo, it's a rock. I don't see why I have to respect other people's religions, it's a ROCK. There are no gods, I don't see why I should be restricted because some other people think the rock is magical.

What's next, I can't burn bibles?


So why make the point about the Cornish folk earlier then?


I was being sarcastic. In reality no-one cares - it's just a rock.

Author:  ProfessorF [ Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: No More Climbing Uluru??

Fair enough, and you're welcome to your views about God and the aboriginals creation stories, but it's their land and they should be able to make their own minds up about who gets access to the rock and who doesn't, God or no God.
People do care.

Author:  Linux_User [ Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: No More Climbing Uluru??

ProfessorF wrote:
Fair enough, and you're welcome to your views about God and the aboriginals creation stories, but it's their land and they should be able to make their own minds up about who gets access to the rock and who doesn't, God or no God.
People do care.


I would agree with you if they actually controlled the land, but like it or lump it a bunch of white Australians hold the reigns of power, and it's up to them. Personally I don't believe any modern, secular government should bow to any religious belief - that be the path to the dark side.

Instead modern ethical rules should apply - if you aren't comfortable climbing the rock then that's your choice, but unless the rock is in danger of disappearing over the short term I think others should be allowed to exercise their own conscious decision on the matter.

Author:  rubicon [ Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: No More Climbing Uluru??

Linux_User wrote:
I would agree with you if they actually controlled the land, but like it or lump it a bunch of white Australians hold the reigns of power.


Actually, the Uluru-Kata Tjuta National Park - where Uluru is located - is owned by the local Anangu Aboriginal people. They've leased the land to the national parks authority and jointly manage it with them. So you're wrong, they do control the land and a bunch of white people don't hold the reins of power, at least not at Uluru.

Author:  okenobi [ Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: No More Climbing Uluru??

Linux_User wrote:
ProfessorF wrote:
Fair enough, and you're welcome to your views about God and the aboriginals creation stories, but it's their land and they should be able to make their own minds up about who gets access to the rock and who doesn't, God or no God.
People do care.


I would agree with you if they actually controlled the land, but like it or lump it a bunch of white Australians hold the reigns of power, and it's up to them. Personally I don't believe any modern, secular government should bow to any religious belief - that be the path to the dark side.

Instead modern ethical rules should apply - if you aren't comfortable climbing the rock then that's your choice, but unless the rock is in danger of disappearing over the short term I think others should be allowed to exercise their own conscious decision on the matter.


Bollocks. It's not about "religion". It's about spiritual beliefs. The aboriginal people are due respect simply for maintaining their culture for this long, let alone because it's the decent thing to do and they have something that almost the entire western hemisphere has lost.

Cornwall has been abused for centuries, but we're happy to engage with the British government in a variety of ways. It's just not the same. Besides, most people down here aren't anywhere near as spiritual as they would've been 1000 years ago.

Modern secular governments are a farce. There are only haves and have nots.

Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
https://www.phpbb.com/