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450,000 disabled people to lose out under universal credit
http://www.x404.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=17438		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  450,000 disabled people to lose out under universal credit
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/ ... edit-study

Quote:
Liam Byrne, the shadow welfare secretary, said: "This report is another nail in the coffin for David Cameron's claims we are all in this together. The PM tried to hide it in the Commons, but this report lays bare the truth that he is snatching up to £1,400 from 100,000 disabled children yet offering a huge tax cut to millionaires. Disabled people and their families are being forced to pick up the tab for the government's shambolic mismanagement of our economy".

It makes Maggie the Milk snatcher seem positively generous in comparison.
Author:  bobbdobbs [ Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 450,000 disabled people to lose out under universal credit
Quote:
"Our reforms will create a simpler and fairer system with aligned levels of support for adults and children. More importantly, there will be no cash losers in the rollout of universal credit. In fact, hundreds of thousands of disabled adults and children will actually receive more support than now, including paying a higher rate of support for all children who are registered blind."


how uncaring.
Author:  Linux_User [ Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 450,000 disabled people to lose out under universal credit
bobbdobbs wrote:
Quote:
"Our reforms will create a simpler and fairer system with aligned levels of support for adults and children. More importantly, there will be no cash losers in the rollout of universal credit. In fact, hundreds of thousands of disabled adults and children will actually receive more support than now, including paying a higher rate of support for all children who are registered blind."


how uncaring.

You're not seriously defending the government on this?

Whilst it is certainly true that some claimants will be better off under Universal Credit, a very, very large number of people are being shafted by ATOS and the government (some of whom, regrettably, have taken their own lives as a result).
Author:  hifidelity2 [ Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 450,000 disabled people to lose out under universal credit
Linux_User wrote:
You're not seriously defending the government on this?

Whilst it is certainly true that some claimants will be better off under Universal Credit, a very, very large number of people are being shafted by ATOS and the government (some of whom, regrettably, have taken their own lives as a result).

Well the 2 sources cannot in any sence be considered to be impartial - the opposition and the Guardian
Author:  saspro [ Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 450,000 disabled people to lose out under universal credit
The question is, are people losing out on money they're actually entitled to or are they losing out on things they can currently claim for but won't be able to in the future.

e.g.

Currently person A is claiming incapacity & JSA. Obviously this is a loophole so it's been closed, however you could claim Person A is actually losing money from the new scheme.


Currently there are a lot of people claiming higher rate disability who could actually work but don't want to (obviously people are claiming who do need it but quite a few are scamming the system), this needs to stop. However in the current climate you can't be seen as discriminating against blatant p1$$ takers so everybody has to take the test.
This means people who were claiming they couldn't work actually can (based on the fact companies have to have disabled facilities etc nowadays & the fact most jobs involve sitting at a PC typing stuff so people with physical disabilities in the lower half of their body can actually do the same jobs as able bodied people).
Author:  Linux_User [ Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 450,000 disabled people to lose out under universal credit
hifidelity2 wrote:
Linux_User wrote:
You're not seriously defending the government on this?

Whilst it is certainly true that some claimants will be better off under Universal Credit, a very, very large number of people are being shafted by ATOS and the government (some of whom, regrettably, have taken their own lives as a result).

Well the 2 sources cannot in any sence be considered to be impartial - the opposition and the Guardian

Take a look at the raw figures, of the people denied their claim by the DWP and ATOS, nearly four out of ten get the decision overturned at Tribunal. And that's only the ones who appeal...
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 450,000 disabled people to lose out under universal credit
saspro wrote:
Currently person A is claiming incapacity & JSA. Obviously this is a loophole so it's been closed, however you could claim Person A is actually losing money from the new scheme./quote]
I doubt that happened as they were mutually exclusive benefits. Though you might have qualified for Incapacity benefit and had a top up from income support if your disability was severe enough. Though usually that would have only been triggered by another benefit but that would have been medically assessed.

saspro wrote:
Currently there are a lot of people claiming higher rate disability who could actually work but don't want to (obviously people are claiming who do need it but quite a few are scamming the system), this needs to stop. However in the current climate you can't be seen as discriminating against blatant p1$$ takers so everybody has to take the test.
This means people who were claiming they couldn't work actually can (based on the fact companies have to have disabled facilities etc nowadays & the fact most jobs involve sitting at a PC typing stuff so people with physical disabilities in the lower half of their body can actually do the same jobs as able bodied people).

The figures for those scamming are minute but the press always seem to be presenting it as more common than it is in reality. Everyone agrees that this needs to stop. It might actually stop the scapegoating of the disabled and hate crimes against them. The DWP do home visits and telephone interviews with claimants and they are not short. I had both this year and both took nearly an hour.

As for those in wheelchairs wanting jobs they still have the problem of getting to and from work and their employer making alterations to the building so that the disabled can work or have suitable work for them. Not all employers are willing to do that. So even if the disabled wanted to work will their be the work available for them. So in the meantime their benefits will be slashed so their quality of life will diminish. I knew of a blind switchboard operator at a big London bank. He was the best operator that I came across. Yet how would he have coped on unemployment benefit alone? The options for jobs for him would be slim so all that would happen is that his disability benefits would be cut substantially. So these benefits should be irrespective of whether they work. It is significantly harder for people who are able bodied but have a mental disability like schizophrenia to get back to work even if they want to. Yet there are many who with adequate support could work, and want to. The problem is that the government are tackling the symptom not the cause.
Author:  l3v1ck [ Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 450,000 disabled people to lose out under universal credit
I agree with a universal system in principle. It's way too complex at the moment. The actual amounts given out is a totally different subject.
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 450,000 disabled people to lose out under universal credit
l3v1ck wrote:
I agree with a universal system in principle. It's way too complex at the moment. The actual amounts given out is a totally different subject.

The problem is that life is complex as is disability. My condition is so unique that I am the only person in the world with my condition that clinical psychologists have never come across my unique coping strategy. How do you fit that into a broad simplistic model?
Author:  l3v1ck [ Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 450,000 disabled people to lose out under universal credit
If it's that rare, how do you fit it into the existing model?
Author:  jonlumb [ Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 450,000 disabled people to lose out under universal credit
Amnesia10 wrote:
l3v1ck wrote:
I agree with a universal system in principle. It's way too complex at the moment. The actual amounts given out is a totally different subject.

The problem is that life is complex as is disability. My condition is so unique that I am the only person in the world with my condition that clinical psychologists have never come across my unique coping strategy. How do you fit that into a broad simplistic model?


Without intending to derail the thread, would you mind at some point posting a bit more about your condition, what makes it unique and the coping strategies etc. I'd be genuinely curious to learn more about it.
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 450,000 disabled people to lose out under universal credit
I have amnesia which I guess you know about. For most day to day events my usual coping strategy is to have things written down and repeat things. I avoid the usual dangerous things like cooking, I have not cooked in twenty odd years, after several kitchen fires, and ironing after leaving an iron on for a week. Even heating food in a microwave is complicated by my short term memory, so have adapted to using two microwaves simultaneously. It works most of the time. Learning things is hard and I need to do what is called errorless learning. It basically means you need to learn something by repeating it but not making mistakes. If I am not stopped during the training process and make an error, then that error is learnt and will be repeated every time.

The feature of my condition that is unique is my way of finding my way home. If I go out however I use building features as ways of identifying buildings. It is a throwback to when I was considering university. Architecture was one of my options. So I live in an Art Deco building and recognise it as such, few people will under stand that so I cannot use it as a way to ask people where to go. Few would understand "I am looking for a 1932 Art deco building." When I would go for walks with one of my carers who was in the building industry we would work out the age of the building by features such as chimney tops, window beading, colours of bricks, types of guttering etc. So all I can do is identify the building I live in, as I cannot use landmarks. So as you can imagine it has not been found by any other clinical psychologist.

Then add in my sleeping disorder. I know that some of you have noticed that I post at all times of the day and night, but that is because I sleep at random throughout the day, and never sleep for more than a few hours before waking up, but am not able to stay awake for too long. So as a result even the DWP think that I should sail through the ATOS assessment without any problem as long as I tell them what my day to day problems are, and that I can remember them on my assessment form.

My short term memory can be so short that if I am interrupted I will be unaware that I was talking to someone or what I was talking about. So if I am talking and someone says let me finish it is a matter of do I try and remember what I was going to say or listen to what they are saying. It is one or the other.
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