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Computer programming to be taught from the age of 7
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Author:  leeds_manc [ Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:59 am ]
Post subject:  Computer programming to be taught from the age of 7
The Times wrote:
Children will learn to write computer programs from the age of seven in the first step of a revolution in the way that schools teach technology.
Learning to code will be taught in primary school alongside science and history to equip young people to understand and navigate the digital world.
Experts from technology and gaming companies who have been asked by the Government to draw up a plan for computer science teaching say that the key is to begin coding at a young age.
Their plan, to be submitted this month, will form the basis of a national curriculum for computer science from September 2014. Michael Gove, the Education Secretary, is scrapping the current information and communication technology (ICT) programmes, declaring them boring and out of date.
Children will learn what an algorithm is, write simple programs and learn computational thinking by 7 and should be able to design and build a mobile phone app by 11. Those who go on to GCSE level should be able to write a program sophisticated enough to solve a Su Doku puzzle. A-level students would be expected to write elementary program languages.
The plan is likely to be welcomed by Mr Gove, who asked software industry leaders to act as advisers to the Department for Education in developing the new curriculum. He has specified that teachers training to become primary ICT specialists must be able to code in two programming languages and explain concepts such as selection, repetition, variables and relational operators.
The level of demand may alarm teachers, particularly in schools where subject specialists are rare and class teachers cover most or all subjects.
The authors of the plan say that recruiting and training teachers to instruct children in coding, abstraction, decomposition and other computational thinking is its biggest challenge and may take 15 years to complete. In many schools the subject focuses largely on developing skills to use software packages such as Word, PowerPoint and Excel and too often neglects instruction in coding. The industry’s proposed curriculum, on which it is conducting a rapid online consultation, was developed by experts from companies such as Google, Microsoft, IBM, Facebook and BT via the BCS Academy of Computing.


Do you think they will have enough qualified teachers by 2014? I think this is great, but maybe not necessary for all kids? It's a specific vocational skill surely? While computers are ubiquitous nowadays, the code is hidden away. Surely being able to use the software is the relevant skill; is this the equivalent of learning metallurgy to construct a spanner, rather than being taught how to tighten nuts?
Author:  John_Vella [ Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer programming to be taught from the age of 7
In my opinion it's not just about teaching kids to code. Some of them will never use the coding skills but teaching them to think in a logical manner has got to be a good thing, hasn't it?

I'm thinking problem solving which will indirectly help them with maths and science.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer programming to be taught from the age of 7
And hacking from 8?
Author:  l3v1ck [ Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer programming to be taught from the age of 7
A good thing IMO.
Author:  JJW009 [ Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer programming to be taught from the age of 7
In most countries, English as a foreign language is torte from a young age. I guess we'll just be teaching BASIC instead.

I can imagine there will be a lot of student teachers required in the beginning, given the skill sets existing staff probably have. When I was 9, we used to help teach some of the lower classes. I'm not sure how useful we really were, but p2p teaching may help reduce the strain on the seeders.
Author:  jonbwfc [ Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer programming to be taught from the age of 7
Actually, I do like JV's idea of teaching more 'generalised skills' than teaching a specific programming language or skillset. I'd much rather someone had a GCSE in 'logical thought' or 'problem solving' than'Visual Basic'. There are skills and processes to.. analytical thinking that can be taught and mastered by practice that apply equally to a vast range of professions, not all of them scientific. Most of our great engineering and scientific breakthroughs have been from clever people seeing a problem or something that needs 'fixing' and coming up with a way of doing that, be it solving a problem in a theoretical physics hypothesis or figuring out how to make a bridge not fall down in the wind or how to build a building that was tall and didn't collapse under it's own weight. You need the formal skills that go with any particular profession of course but in effect they're only the 'tools of the job', you also need the mental flexibility to apply them in new and interesting ways.

Back when I were a lad, you used to do a 'general studies' course as well as whatever formal disciplines you had chosen to study. That one always interested me because you never knew what was coming and often it was something you had no 'expert knowledge' of at all - it was all down to seeing how you could understand the question asked and apply the skills you had to present a viable solution, or at least one that made some kind of sense. Do they still do that or is it considered terribly old hat now?
Author:  pcernie [ Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer programming to be taught from the age of 7
I can't help thinking kids seem to be struggling with the basics (see the GCSE thread) without adding something new that, frankly, might never prove useful to the majority :? :|
Author:  forquare1 [ Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Computer programming to be taught from the age of 7
It's not about the knowledge, but the understanding - see JVs post.

I've never gone and used the stuff I learnt about in RE, but I have an understanding and an appreciation for other people's cultures and beliefs.

The last time I used a simultaneous equation was GCSE maths, but doing it gave me a better grasp of algebra which helped greatly with programming.
Author:  pcernie [ Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer programming to be taught from the age of 7
forquare1 wrote:
It's not about the knowledge, but the understanding - see JVs post.

I've never gone and used the stuff I learnt about in RE, but I have an understanding and an appreciation for other people's cultures and beliefs.

The last time I used a simultaneous equation was GCSE maths, but doing it gave me a better grasp of algebra which helped greatly with programming.


I get the 'understanding' angle, but this sort of thing makes it sound half-baked:

Quote:
Learning to code will be taught in primary school alongside science and history to equip young people to understand and navigate the digital world.
Experts from technology and gaming companies who have been asked by the Government to draw up a plan for computer science teaching say that the key is to begin coding at a young age.


That reads more like shoring up an industry and it's customers to me, and we're talking about quite a lot of teaching time at an important age by the sound of it, coming back to my point about the basics. In another sense, I'm asking is it too early :?

And will extra funding be provided for training/recruitment? :|
Author:  jonbwfc [ Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer programming to be taught from the age of 7
There's no point teaching 7 year olds a specific computer language. Whichever one you choose will be outdated by the time they hit their exams, let alone go out into the world of work. And, being cynical for a mo, there's no point teaching kids to program when all the programming jobs are being shipped off to India where it costs £5k to hire a programmer rather than £30k. We might as well train them all to be blacksmiths.

We need to teach kids how to invent and discover new things, however we do that. Because the only way to guarantee them a job is for them to do things that can't be/haven't already been outsourced.

Jon
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer programming to be taught from the age of 7
jonbwfc wrote:
We need to teach kids how to invent and discover new things, however we do that. Because the only way to guarantee them a job is for them to do things that can't be/haven't already been outsourced.

Jon

Politicians. They can never outsource that. Plus pay well above average and expenses galore. The best jobs for most people will be manual work as that cannot be outsourced easily. Other than that aim very high such as these will be the last to be outsourced.
Author:  ShockWaffle [ Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer programming to be taught from the age of 7
I doubt anyone is planning to teach 7 year olds Java. Scratch or something similar is more likely. It's designed for kids age 6 and up so perfectly suitable. http://scratch.mit.edu/

If the subject matter rewards curiosity it is worth teaching for that reason alone. A little programming doesn't seem like something that really undermines a broad education; if I had kids I would want them to learn about it, and music and history, and literature too. The last thing I would want to be rearing is some cheerless Gradgrindian imbecile whose only purpose is to compete with others from around the world for jobs that are too boring for me to do.
Author:  paulzolo [ Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Computer programming to be taught from the age of 7
At my wife's school, it's being taught already. The kids are exposed to Scratch. I'm being asked if. Am willing to run Code Club there which will be an after school club for those kids who are interested in doing more with that.

If schools need to teach coding, they are going to have to bring in external help, and pay for it.
Author:  cloaked_wolf [ Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer programming to be taught from the age of 7
Given that reading standards are poor, is it really a good thing to divert focus away from the basics?

I remember "programming" at school - it was one of those turtle things that you "programmed" to move eg forward x, turn right y degrees etc. This was opposed to my dad who bought a zx spectrum and then basically bollocked me if I typed in something wrong. I was about 8 at the time I think.
Author:  big_D [ Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Computer programming to be taught from the age of 7
John_Vella wrote:
In my opinion it's not just about teaching kids to code. Some of them will never use the coding skills but teaching them to think in a logical manner has got to be a good thing, hasn't it?

I'm thinking problem solving which will indirectly help them with maths and science.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2

I agree with that, that is what we learnt at school. But to actually solve the problems and demonstrate that the solution works, you need some form of language.

That is why young children used to learn with Logo and the turtle, it was quick and easy to learn and had clearly visible results for the children to instantly see.

In secondary school, we learnt BASIC and CESIL. Both of these allowed the pupils to learn the basics of programming, without having to worry about classes, pointers, machine code etc.

Although Visual Basic et al are a long way removed from the simplicity of BASIC.
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