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Payday loan rates 'to be capped' 
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20531126

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The government is to change the law to allow a cap to be imposed on the interest rates charged for so-called "payday loans".

Ministers are to amend the Financial Services Bill to give the planned Financial Conduct Authority the power to limit charges.

The news follows concerns over annual interest rates of up to 4,000%.

The government faced a possible House of Lords defeat on an amendment put down by a Labour peer over the issue.

BBC political correspondent Norman Smith said it was being suggested that there should not be a blanket cap on interest rates but the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) would be able to investigate different loan schemes and then set a limit on the amount of APR charged.

'Usury'
Labour peer Lord Mitchell put down the amendment to the bill, which was also signed by Lord Welby, the incoming Archbishop of Canterbury.

Lord Welby called the most costly loans "usury", saying that curbing them was a "moral" issue.

This followed concerns that loans intended to be short term have become prohibitively expensive and, in some cases, ruinous if not rapidly repaid.

The government has now agreed instead to introduce its own amendment to the bill next Wednesday.

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Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:19 pm
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I understand that the admin costs for a loan are the same regardless of whether the loan is for one week or three years, and as such the need for higher rates to cover the costs. But some of the rates you see advertised are just stupid.
Thankfully I'm not in the desperate situation (and you would have to be desperate) to need one. If I was I'm sure I'd use a pawn broker instead. As there's colaterol, their rates are much better.
Personally I think these sort of loans are flawed in principle. They're like trying to seal the hole in the Titanic with an Elastoplast. Surely it's better just to pay your bills a few days late. If you're in sure a dire situation where there is nothing you can delay any futher, then you're screwed anyway.

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Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:27 pm
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Well they need to cap those admin costs whatever. With online applications how high are the costs anyway? If the rate is onerous it will only make the matter worse and so should never be allowed in the first place. The problem is that the big banks have lobbied against such legislation because their overdraft rates and penalties could also fall into this category.

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Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:00 pm
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The reason why it's so high is because the loan is short term. Typical loans are a few years long eg 1-5 yrs. These payday loans are meant to be stop-gaps for when you're caught short.

***NB: my maths is poor and my understanding of finance even worse***

If you borrow £100 for 30 days, do really expect to pay back just £100.50? (calculated using 7% apr)

Let's say the charge is £10. That means you pay back £110. If the interest for 30 days is £10, what's the APR? Something like 120%. That's vastly different from the 7% of a loan.

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Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:08 pm
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cloaked_wolf wrote:
The reason why it's so high is because the loan is short term. Typical loans are a few years long eg 1-5 yrs. These payday loans are meant to be stop-gaps for when you're caught short.

***NB: my maths is poor and my understanding of finance even worse***

If you borrow £100 for 30 days, do really expect to pay back just £100.50? (calculated using 7% apr)

Let's say the charge is £10. That means you pay back £110. If the interest for 30 days is £10, what's the APR? Something like 120%. That's vastly different from the 7% of a loan.

Fair enough, but do those calculations again based on 1700%, 2500% or even 4000% APR

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Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:15 pm
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cloaked_wolf wrote:
The reason why it's so high is because the loan is short term. Typical loans are a few years long eg 1-5 yrs. These payday loans are meant to be stop-gaps for when you're caught short.

***NB: my maths is poor and my understanding of finance even worse***

If you borrow £100 for 30 days, do really expect to pay back just £100.50? (calculated using 7% apr)

Let's say the charge is £10. That means you pay back £110. If the interest for 30 days is £10, what's the APR? Something like 120%. That's vastly different from the 7% of a loan.

In which case split the fee separately from the interest so rather than saying 1700% why not say £20 fee plus 50%?

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Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:39 pm
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Amnesia10 wrote:
cloaked_wolf wrote:
The reason why it's so high is because the loan is short term. Typical loans are a few years long eg 1-5 yrs. These payday loans are meant to be stop-gaps for when you're caught short.

***NB: my maths is poor and my understanding of finance even worse***

If you borrow £100 for 30 days, do really expect to pay back just £100.50? (calculated using 7% apr)

Let's say the charge is £10. That means you pay back £110. If the interest for 30 days is £10, what's the APR? Something like 120%. That's vastly different from the 7% of a loan.

In which case split the fee separately from the interest so rather than saying 1700% why not say £20 fee plus 50%?


Because the whole point of an APR is to show the total cost of the loan. Before APR's came in Banks etc could say 0% interest for a £2000 loan over 5 yrs - with an "arrangement fee of £1000" but the headline rate is 0% (with the fee hidden in the smallest print possible

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Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:19 pm
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The problem with these payday loans is that they trap people. I’ve read stories of people who can’t pay up after a month, so start paying far more than they expected. You will also have people who get into the cycle of debt. They can pay off the loan, but then need another one to meet the shortfall caused by that payment. You then end up living on these loans.

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Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:43 pm
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hifidelity2 wrote:
Amnesia10 wrote:
In which case split the fee separately from the interest so rather than saying 1700% why not say £20 fee plus 50%?


Because the whole point of an APR is to show the total cost of the loan. Before APR's came in Banks etc could say 0% interest for a £2000 loan over 5 yrs - with an "arrangement fee of £1000" but the headline rate is 0% (with the fee hidden in the smallest print possible

I fully appreciate that but they should be at the same size not hidden in small print. APR is one way of comparing loans but why aren't banks told to display APR for overdraft charges on statements? So people can actually see how high that £1 overdraft actually turns out to be. If statements were printed to show in a decent size font that the APR was 400 000% they might kick up a fuss.

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Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:54 pm
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It's pretty simple, cap the interest rate at something vaguely sane, say 15% and then if it's going to be a short term loan, charge a fixed arrangement fee.

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Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:33 pm
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jonlumb wrote:
It's pretty simple, cap the interest rate at something vaguely sane, say 15% and then if it's going to be a short term loan, charge a fixed arrangement fee.

That seems fine. I can live with that. There needs to be ways of protecting the public from being fleeced otherwise we all suffer from phone calls from some cowboy operation asking if you had suffered some excessive rate charge from some payday loan operator or even bank.

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Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:12 pm
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jonlumb wrote:
It's pretty simple, cap the interest rate at something vaguely sane, say 15% and then if it's going to be a short term loan, charge a fixed arrangement fee.

They'll never do that, it's far too sensible! ;)


Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:48 am
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Amnesia10 wrote:
hifidelity2 wrote:
Amnesia10 wrote:
In which case split the fee separately from the interest so rather than saying 1700% why not say £20 fee plus 50%?


Because the whole point of an APR is to show the total cost of the loan. Before APR's came in Banks etc could say 0% interest for a £2000 loan over 5 yrs - with an "arrangement fee of £1000" but the headline rate is 0% (with the fee hidden in the smallest print possible

I fully appreciate that but they should be at the same size not hidden in small print. APR is one way of comparing loans but why aren't banks told to display APR for overdraft charges on statements? So people can actually see how high that £1 overdraft actually turns out to be. If statements were printed to show in a decent size font that the APR was 400 000% they might kick up a fuss.

They do quote a "Typical APR" often based on an OD of £1000 - its hard to quote an APR on a none fixed amount

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Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:31 am
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hifidelity2 wrote:
They do quote a "Typical APR" often based on an OD of £1000 - its hard to quote an APR on a none fixed amount

Yes but with computers it should be possible to calculate the APR for any size loan or overdraft.

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Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:31 pm
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