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Apple changes tact on Lightning licensing in Kickstarter row
http://www.x404.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=17895		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  pcernie [ Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Apple changes tact on Lightning licensing in Kickstarter row
http://www.techradar.com/news/computing ... ow-1121048
Author:  Zippy [ Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Apple changes tact on Lightning licensing in Kickstarter row
Changes tact? Stupid Techradar! :roll:
Author:  pcernie [ Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Apple changes tact on Lightning licensing in Kickstarter row
Zippy wrote:
Changes tact? Stupid Techradar! :roll:


I'm gonna give them the benefit of the doubt and say it's a play on the context... but they do have form ;)
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Apple changes tact on Lightning licensing in Kickstarter row
The problem is that the genuine cables that are lightning compatible are expensive and are anti competitive. I am surprised that the EU are not looking into this.
Author:  davrosG5 [ Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Apple changes tact on Lightning licensing in Kickstarter row
Amnesia10 wrote:
The problem is that the genuine cables that are lightning compatible are expensive and are anti competitive. I am surprised that the EU are not looking into this.


Unless the licensing terms are vastly more restrictive than those for the 30-pin connector then it's no more or less anti-competitive than the 30-pin.
It's not in Apples interest for it to be difficult or expensive to develop for the Lightning connector after all as they'd only be harming their own products market.
Lightning stuff will be more expensive to start with because there simply aren't the economies of scale there are with the 30-pin stuff yet.
Author:  jonbwfc [ Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Apple changes tact on Lightning licensing in Kickstarter row
davrosG5 wrote:
Amnesia10 wrote:
The problem is that the genuine cables that are lightning compatible are expensive and are anti competitive. I am surprised that the EU are not looking into this.

Unless the licensing terms are vastly more restrictive than those for the 30-pin connector then it's no more or less anti-competitive than the 30-pin.

Well, apparently they were. There was, as far as I know, no restriction on not having any other connector on the device with the 'dock connector'. Given it seems Apple have seen some degree of sense, it's probably fair to say the licensing terms are now roughly equivalent to the preceding ones.
As it is, as long as Apple provide relevant adapters to standard connectors (i.e. microUSB) it's unlikely the case for 'anti-competition' will be strong enough to run. With a way to plug an iPhone 5(etc) into non-lightning peripheral and now no restriction on how non-Apple connectors are supplied, I think that boat may have sailed. If Apple had continued with their 'us and no-one else' policy there might have been enough leverage to pursue a case but if that clause has been dropped, I think the case goes with it.
The lightning connector of itself is not anti-competitive, because peripheral makers can happily ignore it. It's technically in breach of the EU standard connector ruling but since that was watered down with an 'or an adapter' clause, that's effectively no ruling at all.

davrosG5 wrote:
It's not in Apples interest for it to be difficult or expensive to develop for the Lightning connector after all as they'd only be harming their own products market.

Indeed but it's not in their interests for it to be 'free' either. They want the accessory ecosystem to remain - it's their one remaining trump card over the opposition - but they want a piece of the money that's being made by it.

davrosG5 wrote:
Lightning stuff will be more expensive to start with because there simply aren't the economies of scale there are with the 30-pin stuff yet.

I'm not sure Lightning connectors will ever be as cheap to manufacture as dock connectors are/were. It's a more complicated interface although the actual plug is simpler. Plus I don't think the new generation of Apple products will ever dominate the market the way the older generations did. Many accessory systems are moving to wireless connections (bluetooth or wifi/'airplay' style) and thus can be multi-platform and don't need a lightning connector or port anyway. Eventually the only add ons that do have a cable still will be those that are used for charging. And even that may be on the way out - I reckon it's only a generation or two before wireless or at least 'surface contact' charging is common.
Author:  Fogmeister [ Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Apple changes tact on Lightning licensing in Kickstarter row
Zippy wrote:
Changes tact? Stupid Techradar! :roll:

Lol! First thing I thought when I read it. Surely it's Changes Tack?
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Apple changes tact on Lightning licensing in Kickstarter row
jonbwfc wrote:
davrosG5 wrote:
Amnesia10 wrote:
The problem is that the genuine cables that are lightning compatible are expensive and are anti competitive. I am surprised that the EU are not looking into this.

Unless the licensing terms are vastly more restrictive than those for the 30-pin connector then it's no more or less anti-competitive than the 30-pin.

Well, apparently they were. There was, as far as I know, no restriction on not having any other connector on the device with the 'dock connector'. Given it seems Apple have seen some degree of sense, it's probably fair to say the licensing terms are now roughly equivalent to the preceding ones.
As it is, as long as Apple provide relevant adapters to standard connectors (i.e. microUSB) it's unlikely the case for 'anti-competition' will be strong enough to run. With a way to plug an iPhone 5(etc) into non-lightning peripheral and now no restriction on how non-Apple connectors are supplied, I think that boat may have sailed. If Apple had continued with their 'us and no-one else' policy there might have been enough leverage to pursue a case but if that clause has been dropped, I think the case goes with it.
The lightning connector of itself is not anti-competitive, because peripheral makers can happily ignore it. It's technically in breach of the EU standard connector ruling but since that was watered down with an 'or an adapter' clause, that's effectively no ruling at all.

The problem is that the cables are too complex for many manufacturers and so consumers will find that they buy cables that do not work.

jonbwfc wrote:
davrosG5 wrote:
Lightning stuff will be more expensive to start with because there simply aren't the economies of scale there are with the 30-pin stuff yet.

I'm not sure Lightning connectors will ever be as cheap to manufacture as dock connectors are/were. It's a more complicated interface although the actual plug is simpler. Plus I don't think the new generation of Apple products will ever dominate the market the way the older generations did. Many accessory systems are moving to wireless connections (bluetooth or wifi/'airplay' style) and thus can be multi-platform and don't need a lightning connector or port anyway. Eventually the only add ons that do have a cable still will be those that are used for charging. And even that may be on the way out - I reckon it's only a generation or two before wireless or at least 'surface contact' charging is common.

I think that wireless charging is coming and that might come initially through accessories. IIRC there was mention of an Apple patent that had wireless charging in the main computer so that it could charge phones mice keyboards wirelessly.
Author:  jonbwfc [ Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Apple changes tact on Lightning licensing in Kickstarter row
Amnesia10 wrote:
The problem is that the cables are too complex for many manufacturers and so consumers will find that they buy cables that do not work.

Well that of itself is not anti-competitive. If you design something complex, it's up to the rest to improve until they can produce it too, not for you to give it to them for free. If people buy something that turns out not to work they need to talk to the retailer and/or trading standards, not the monopolies authorities.

jonbwfc wrote:
I think that wireless charging is coming and that might come initially through accessories.

<nods> seen a few case/battery pack jobs that can do that already. I'd say one thing I think you'd agree with though - I think there needs to be a standard, so you can drop any phone/tablet on any charging pad and it will work.

jonbwfc wrote:
IIRC there was mention of an Apple patent that had wireless charging in the main computer so that it could charge phones mice keyboards wirelessly.

Don't really care where the power comes from, I just want any device to be able to charge that way.
Author:  pcernie [ Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Apple changes tact on Lightning licensing in Kickstarter row
I want wireless everything and I wanted it 15 years ago :evil:
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