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Truancy prosecutions in Wales rise 700% over five years
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Author:  Amnesia10 [ Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Truancy prosecutions in Wales rise 700% over five years
Prosecutions of parents in Wales for truancy by their children have risen 700% over the past five years, BBC Wales has found.

Quote:
Court cases for failing to send a child to school rocketed from 60 in 2007 to nearly 500 in 2011.

Merthyr Tydfil council said asking for conditional discharges had been more successful than fining parents.

But Education Minister Leighton Andrews said fines were one aspect of policy to tackle truancy.

I seriously doubt that it works as a policy. Just a way of right wing governments criminalising the poor.
Author:  hifidelity2 [ Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Truancy prosecutions in Wales rise 700% over five years
Amnesia10 wrote:
Prosecutions of parents in Wales for truancy by their children have risen 700% over the past five years, BBC Wales has found.

Quote:
Court cases for failing to send a child to school rocketed from 60 in 2007 to nearly 500 in 2011.

Merthyr Tydfil council said asking for conditional discharges had been more successful than fining parents.

But Education Minister Leighton Andrews said fines were one aspect of policy to tackle truancy.

I seriously doubt that it works as a policy. Just a way of right wing governments criminalising the poor.

I dont see what been poor has to do with it
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Truancy prosecutions in Wales rise 700% over five years
Well most of the impact will be on the poor. What if you were a single parent who had to work long hours so were never about to take the kids to school? Do you give up the job to make sure that the kids get to school? All that does is make them poor. The benefits are subsistence levels anyway. If the child is bored at school it could be down to poor teaching and nothing to do with parenting.
Author:  hifidelity2 [ Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Truancy prosecutions in Wales rise 700% over five years
Amnesia10 wrote:
Well most of the impact will be on the poor. What if you were a single parent who had to work long hours so were never about to take the kids to school? Do you give up the job to make sure that the kids get to school? All that does is make them poor. The benefits are subsistence levels anyway. If the child is bored at school it could be down to poor teaching and nothing to do with parenting.

That’s just bad parenting - you should as a parent be able to control your child (rich, poor, single parent, lesbian commune) enough for them to go to school.
If the kid bunks off then accept the consequences - indeed I would sell some of the kids prized possessions to show him / her the consequence of their actions
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Truancy prosecutions in Wales rise 700% over five years
Yes it is bad parenting but middle class parents are probably able to spend the time and money to fix their kids problems. Poor parents do not have those resources so these fines probably hit them disproportionately, hence my comment about another tax on the poor.
Author:  hifidelity2 [ Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Truancy prosecutions in Wales rise 700% over five years
Amnesia10 wrote:
Yes it is bad parenting but middle class parents are probably able to spend the time and money to fix their kids problems. Poor parents do not have those resources so these fines probably hit them disproportionately, hence my comment about another tax on the poor.


Using that logic we should not fine the poor for anything - so if I speed I get £60 fine but if i'm "poor" and speed I should be let off

Now I think one of the scandinavian countries adjusts its fines based on your income - so taking the above if I speed I might get a fine of £60 but if I'm poor I get a fine of £1 (I think they had some millionair fined http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8446545.stm - found it its the Swiss
Author:  JJW009 [ Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Truancy prosecutions in Wales rise 700% over five years
hifidelity2 wrote:
Using that logic we should not fine the poor for anything - so if I speed I get £60 fine but if i'm "poor" and speed I should be let off

Now I think one of the scandinavian countries adjusts its fines based on your income - so taking the above if I speed I might get a fine of £60 but if I'm poor I get a fine of £1 (I think they had some millionair fined http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8446545.stm - found it its the Swiss

I think that's a great idea. Points affect everyone equally, but fixed penalties really are terribly unfair.

I had to mug two old ladies to pay one off once: despite displaying a valid P&D ticket they had towed the company van I was driving. If I left it there until I could afford the fine, the fine would have gone up by 3000% meaning I could obviously never afford to pay it. Due to this blatant extortion, I either had to steal money or murder the thugs running the place and steal the car back.

However, kids are different. You are supposed to look after your kids. If you can't, they should be taken away.
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Truancy prosecutions in Wales rise 700% over five years
hifidelity2 wrote:
Amnesia10 wrote:
Yes it is bad parenting but middle class parents are probably able to spend the time and money to fix their kids problems. Poor parents do not have those resources so these fines probably hit them disproportionately, hence my comment about another tax on the poor.


Using that logic we should not fine the poor for anything - so if I speed I get £60 fine but if i'm "poor" and speed I should be let off

Now I think one of the scandinavian countries adjusts its fines based on your income - so taking the above if I speed I might get a fine of £60 but if I'm poor I get a fine of £1 (I think they had some millionair fined http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8446545.stm - found it its the Swiss

Yes but you could also impact them through making the kids to community service. The problem with penalties on parents is that in many cases the very poor have nothing to withhold from the kids in the first place. A rich kid could risk losing that pony or car on their 17th birthday but that would not be viable for someone from a sink estate.

I do think that a unit fine system is a good idea, but the last time it was rolled out the treasury got greedy and increased the penalties fourfold and only in a matter of months the scheme was scrapped when all the trials went well.
Author:  hifidelity2 [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Truancy prosecutions in Wales rise 700% over five years
Amnesia10 wrote:
Yes but you could also impact them through making the kids do community service.


I have no issues with that

Amnesia10 wrote:
The problem with penalties on parents is that in many cases the very poor have nothing to withhold from the kids in the first place.

Their favourit trainers etc - they will have things that they value - it does not need to be the cost of the fine just something that will show them the consequences of thier actions

Amnesia10 wrote:
I do think that a unit fine system is a good idea, but the last time it was rolled out the treasury got greedy and increased the penalties fourfold and only in a matter of months the scheme was scrapped when all the trials went well.

The issue I have with variable fines for the same crime is the percived unfairness - why should I be fined more than the next person just becuase I work my ar$ off while they sit at home doing nothing
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Truancy prosecutions in Wales rise 700% over five years
hifidelity2 wrote:
Amnesia10 wrote:
The problem with penalties on parents is that in many cases the very poor have nothing to withhold from the kids in the first place.

Their favourit trainers etc - they will have things that they value - it does not need to be the cost of the fine just something that will show them the consequences of thier actions

They might simply go out and nick them instead.

hifidelity2 wrote:
Amnesia10 wrote:
I do think that a unit fine system is a good idea, but the last time it was rolled out the treasury got greedy and increased the penalties fourfold and only in a matter of months the scheme was scrapped when all the trials went well.

The issue I have with variable fines for the same crime is the percived unfairness - why should I be fined more than the next person just becuase I work my ar$ off while they sit at home doing nothing

The fines are in proportion to your disposable income. The only alternative is to imprison people. That hurts rich people just as much as someone who is poor.
Author:  hifidelity2 [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Truancy prosecutions in Wales rise 700% over five years
Amnesia10 wrote:
hifidelity2 wrote:
Amnesia10 wrote:
The problem with penalties on parents is that in many cases the very poor have nothing to withhold from the kids in the first place.

Their favourit trainers etc - they will have things that they value - it does not need to be the cost of the fine just something that will show them the consequences of thier actions

They might simply go out and nick them instead.

Then the kid will be put away and the issue of skipping school goes away


Amnesia10 wrote:
The fines are in proportion to your disposable income. The only alternative is to imprison people. That hurts rich people just as much as someone who is poor.

Again it will look unfare to people:-
I and my collegue earn the same. I live in small house and drive an old car and so have a high disposable income (my choice). He lives in a big house (big mortgage, has loans for a new car, TV etc) and has a very low disposable income - we both do the same crime and yet I get fined far more than him - where is the fairness in that
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Truancy prosecutions in Wales rise 700% over five years
hifidelity2 wrote:
Amnesia10 wrote:
The fines are in proportion to your disposable income. The only alternative is to imprison people. That hurts rich people just as much as someone who is poor.

Again it will look unfare to people:-
I and my collegue earn the same. I live in small house and drive an old car and so have a high disposable income (my choice). He lives in a big house (big mortgage, has loans for a new car, TV etc) and has a very low disposable income - we both do the same crime and yet I get fined far more than him - where is the fairness in that

The police will look at you and see the high disposable income as why you are guilty. You expect to be caught and so have enough spare cash to cover all the fines that you generate. :lol:
Author:  bobbdobbs [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Truancy prosecutions in Wales rise 700% over five years
Whether you are poor or rich has [LIFTED] all to do with how you try and raise your children. Using your socioeconomic state as an excuse is just that an excuse. A continuation of the "its not my fault, its someone else's" attitude, also the its my right but I won't accept any responsibilities attitude

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Truancy prosecutions in Wales rise 700% over five years
I am not condoning it. There must be better ways to resolve this problem.
Author:  hifidelity2 [ Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Truancy prosecutions in Wales rise 700% over five years
Amnesia10 wrote:
I am not condoning it. There must be better ways to resolve this problem.

Assuming its a last resort and not a 1st resort then not sure what it is

Bring back Borstals ? – send the kid to a secure “boarding school” where they can’t abscond for a term
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