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Epic research project confirms what everyone knew
http://www.x404.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=18872		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  JJW009 [ Sat May 04, 2013 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Epic research project confirms what everyone knew
But it's a very large study, so statistically relevant:
http://epic.iarc.fr/keyfindings.php
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1741-7015/11/63/abstract

Analysis here:

http://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org ... y-burgers/
http://gawker.com/5989136/heres-how-muc ... ing-cancer

TL;DR:

Red meat gives you heart disease and cancer.
Cured meat (Bacon) gives you even more cancer.
Processed meats with preservatives (burgers) are evil with horns on.
Fresh chicken is totally fine.

Quote:
Consumers of processed meat are 44 percent more likely to die prematurely than people who eat little or none.
Processed meat consumption increased the risk of death from heart disease by 72 percent and cancer by 11 percent.
4,100 fewer people in the UK would have the disease if they ate no more than 0.35 ounces a day


War time rations for cured meat was 4oz per week, which is about right. Dairy and sugar were tightly controlled too, leading to a generally healthier diet. Life expectancy has been reducing since we started eating more and more and more. Some people can eat a week's worth darn near every hour...

Eating habits have also worsened in parts of the world such as China seeing significant economic growth and consuming richer foods, and the populations are now experiencing heart disease at previously unimaginable levels.

Gluttony is probably the number one cause of health problems in the west.

:edit to add poll:
You may tick two answers, to allow for extra pie.
Author:  TheFrenchun [ Sat May 04, 2013 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic research project confirms what everyone knew
Since after the war, food started being sold in polystyrene packs and other plastic containers. Some additive to plastic (Bisphenol and phtalates for example) have been found to be toxic.
Maybe we should start selling food in paper and glass again and see if the cancer rate drops?
Author:  JJW009 [ Sat May 04, 2013 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic research project confirms what everyone knew
TheFrenchun wrote:
Since after the war, food started being sold in polystyrene packs and other plastic containers. Some additive to plastic (Bisphenol and phtalates for example) have been found to be toxic.
Maybe we should start selling food in paper and glass again and see if the cancer rate drops?

That's actually one of my hobby-horses. There is certainly evidence concerning altered endocrine function.

I refuse to eat anything that's been wrapped in cling-film, for example. I mean, why would anyone even think that's a good idea?

There's a lot of stuff happened to our food in our parent's lifetime. Preservatives, pesticides, hormones, GM etc... Most of it for the worse.

It would be really nice if we could just eat fresh stuff that grew nearby, like every single other creature on the planet does and like we did until quite recently...
Author:  forquare1 [ Sat May 04, 2013 4:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Epic research project confirms what everyone knew
JJW009 wrote:
It would be really nice if we could just eat fresh stuff that grew nearby, like every single other creature on the planet does and like we did until quite recently...


We can. I buy my meat at the butchers who locally source their products, as does the green grocers I go to. The thing I consume most of that isn't made even in the UK is tea, and possibly chocolate!
Author:  JJW009 [ Sat May 04, 2013 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic research project confirms what everyone knew
forquare1 wrote:
We can. I buy my meat at the butchers who locally source their products, as does the green grocers I go to.

That's great. Sadly you only have to look in the average shopping trolley in Asda to see what crap many parents feed to their children, who then grow up thinking it's normal to eat so-called meat that is mechanically recovered, mixed with sulphites and formed into shapes wrapped in plastic. Along with their cheese strings and phosphoric acid cafeine drinks. There's often not a natural product in sight...
Author:  cloaked_wolf [ Sat May 04, 2013 5:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic research project confirms what everyone knew
Sitting in the car waiting for family to finish looking at baby clothes despite not doing anything useful during the grocery shop. It's interesting to see what people buy. Preprepared meals seem to occupy most people's trollies whereas very few had just raw ingredients. The age range didn't seem to matter much.
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Sat May 04, 2013 7:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic research project confirms what everyone knew
JJW009 wrote:
forquare1 wrote:
We can. I buy my meat at the butchers who locally source their products, as does the green grocers I go to.

That's great. Sadly you only have to look in the average shopping trolley in Asda to see what crap many parents feed to their children, who then grow up thinking it's normal to eat so-called meat that is mechanically recovered, mixed with sulphites and formed into shapes wrapped in plastic. Along with their cheese strings and phosphoric acid cafeine drinks. There's often not a natural product in sight...

I completely agree. Like others I get my meat from the butcher and fresh milk and a small veggie box from the milkman and top up veg from the greengrocer. My milk currently comes in PVC milk bags but I will return to milk bottles should I move. Apparently we all eat too much red meat, I will admit to that as well, but most of the time I am well below the limit unless I treat myself to a steak every now and then. Since I bought the Kenwood I have started making my own mince, and soups. The butcher gave me an idea on how to make sausages (use porridge oats) so that might be possible one day. So my use of processed foods has plummeted. Salt intake has also been slashed. I doubt that my diet has been as healthy as this for years.
Author:  ProfessorF [ Sun May 05, 2013 12:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic research project confirms what everyone knew
We need people to die off. There's no point in a rapidly increasing population if we can't support them all. What's the point in surviving into your 90s with a terrible standard of living with a body that's hanging on and (more likely) a mind that's somewhat thread bare?
If I have kids, I've no great desire for them to have to support me in my decrepitude; a longer life span isn't a good thing with a population growing exponentially.

Think of this as a regulatory mechanism. A certain percentage will die off earlier - hooray. Why do we want everyone to live to 100 anyway? Where's this come from?
Author:  big_D [ Sun May 05, 2013 6:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic research project confirms what everyone knew
I haven't eaten any red meat since 2006, nor pork, duck, goose or lamb.

I only eat turkey, chicken and fish. The turkey we buy from a local farm that breeds them, slaughters them and processes the meat, we either buy cuts of fresh meat or very occasionally sliced, cold meat or sausages.

We eat a lot of fresh salad and, apart from sweetcorn, we use fresh vegetables or frozen stuff, like broccoli and cauliflower.

It is very rare that I eat any "ready meals" or other pre-prepared meals.
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Sun May 05, 2013 11:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic research project confirms what everyone knew
ProfessorF wrote:
We need people to die off. There's no point in a rapidly increasing population if we can't support them all. What's the point in surviving into your 90s with a terrible standard of living with a body that's hanging on and (more likely) a mind that's somewhat thread bare?
If I have kids, I've no great desire for them to have to support me in my decrepitude; a longer life span isn't a good thing with a population growing exponentially.

Think of this as a regulatory mechanism. A certain percentage will die off earlier - hooray. Why do we want everyone to live to 100 anyway? Where's this come from?

That is coming, it is called welfare cuts. Look at the numbers of suicides in Greece and Ireland. Think of all the future pensions saved. /s
Author:  JJW009 [ Mon May 06, 2013 12:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic research project confirms what everyone knew
ProfessorF wrote:
We need people to die off. There's no point in a rapidly increasing population if we can't support them all. What's the point in surviving into your 90s with a terrible standard of living with a body that's hanging on and (more likely) a mind that's somewhat thread bare?
If I have kids, I've no great desire for them to have to support me in my decrepitude; a longer life span isn't a good thing with a population growing exponentially.

Think of this as a regulatory mechanism. A certain percentage will die off earlier - hooray. Why do we want everyone to live to 100 anyway? Where's this come from?

It's not a very efficient mechanism for population control, since it encourages poor health and dependency at an earlier age when people should still be contributing to society but after they have procreated.

I think it would be better to simply lace various foods with chemicals that are fatally toxic in certain combinations eaten by people you consider to be useless. That would cull young and old alike. Thank The Joker for that idea...

I wasn't expecting this thread to go off topic and hit Godwin quite so quickly, but never mind.

In a feeble attempt to get back on topic:

How much preserved and processed meat do you eat in a week, compared to the suggested limit of 4oz? That includes things like any bacon, sausage that isn't fresh from a butcher, ham, salami, burgers that aren't made freshly from whole meat, any "ready meal".

For reference, a small burger is about 2oz and a quarter pounder is obviously 4oz. A small slice of ham or single rasher of bacon is typically half an ounce.

I've added a poll.
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Mon May 06, 2013 12:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic research project confirms what everyone knew
JJW009 wrote:
In a feeble attempt to get back on topic:

How much preserved and processed meat do you eat in a week, compared to the suggested limit of 4oz? That includes things like any bacon, sausage that isn't fresh from a butcher, ham, salami, burgers that aren't made freshly from whole meat, any "ready meal".

For reference, a small burger is about 2oz and a quarter pounder is obviously 4oz. A small slice of ham or single rasher of bacon is typically half an ounce.

I've added a poll.

I only eat bacon (from the butcher) that comes on a turkey crown roast, so every a little every couple of weeks. Salami again is only rarely used and that is when I try and make a pizza. Burgers I can now make myself even though I have not tried yet. I have since stopped ready meals when they made up 100% of my diet some years ago, as I was limited to microwaving alone. I still only microwave but have learnt how to do a lot more without needing to resort to ready meals. So my diet is spectacularly better that it used to be.

Though another risk is frying it. How many fry?
Author:  JJW009 [ Mon May 06, 2013 12:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic research project confirms what everyone knew
Amnesia10 wrote:
Though another risk is frying it. How many fry?

I think frying, roasting, grilling or barbecuing would all produce similar amounts of Heterocyclic amines and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons? Basically, it's related to how tasty it is!

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/fact ... oked-meats

One recommendation is:

Quote:
Using a microwave oven to cook meat prior to exposure to high temperatures can also substantially reduce HCA formation by reducing the time that meat must be in contact with high heat to finish cooking

I always do this when roasting or barbecuing, mainly to reduce the time required and ensure even cooking. It's easy to under-cook meat in the middle when you're cremating it on the outside.
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Mon May 06, 2013 1:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic research project confirms what everyone knew
I never fried because of the saturated fats involved, but used to grill before the memory loss. Though I have tried roasting in a halogen oven with a timer. Though I will have to think about how to cook in the combination microwave, as it will be even healthier. I have some pyrex casserole dishes with lids which might be a good alternative. As for red meat I use only eat 1 lb of meat over a couple of weeks so well below the health limits for red meat.
Author:  pcernie [ Mon May 06, 2013 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Epic research project confirms what everyone knew
I chose pie since it varies wildly week to week - I'm as faithful as my options as Chris Rock once said.

I'd sooner run the risk or even certainty of dying younger than worrying about it. I eat whatever tastes good to me and get lots of exercise anyway. Frankly, if anything's gonna do for me it'll be sh1tty genetics - I know far more people who died of heart attacks etc who were 'healthy' than the slobs. And I don't just mean family.
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