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£25 to see your GP? http://www.x404.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=19518 |
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Author: | cloaked_wolf [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:31 am ] | |||||||||
Post subject: | £25 to see your GP? | |||||||||
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Author: | cloaked_wolf [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:32 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: £25 to see your GP? |
I'm completely against this for many reasons but I can see the logic behind it. Too many people are seeing their GPs with minor coughs/colds that are self-limiting and do not require medical input. In the past, there would be some sort of "common sense" or even just older people who knew how to deal with common ailments. As a society, we have moved to the "me, me, me" phase where we want instant gratification and demand instant cures for minor ailments. To "wait it out" doesn't seem to be something that gets considered. Hence you get people coming in unnecessarily, reducing the number of appointments available for those who truly need it. My reasons for being against it: 1. It alters the doctor-patient relationship. The patient is more likely to want to come away with something eg prescription to make it feel their worth for the appointment. 2. It may put off those with minor ailments but it may deter those with something more serious from coming in. 3. Who will pay? Will it be the small group of people who are actually working? The highest users tend to be children, or those over the age of 60. Given that these groups are exempt from a lot of things, would they too be exempt? 4. What happens if someone turns up but can't or doesn't want to pay? Do we turn them away? What are the legal ramifications if this happened? 5. If people have to pay to see their GP, it may push them towards A&E and walk-in centres, thereby increasing demand in those areas. Unless you start charging for A&E and WIC attendances. Which will push people towards ambulances. 6. It's the start of a potential avalance of privatisation of all NHS services and takes away the "free at the point of use" on which the NHS was built. |
Author: | AlunD [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:35 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: £25 to see your GP? |
So could we opt out of NHS and go private and get a reduction in our NI contribution and stop having to pay our portion of NHS costs? </sarcasm> Seems to me just another tax? |
Author: | cloaked_wolf [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:44 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: £25 to see your GP? |
TBH this was just a survey amongst GPs. The idea isn't to generate more income but to stop DNAs (did not attend) and those with simple coughs/colds. At our surgery, before I came in, people struggled to get an appointment with a GP. Just before I came in, they expanded the appointments and with the addition of trainees, there are three times the number of appointments there were before. People are still complaining that they can't get an appointment. What are your suggestions? |
Author: | TheFrenchun [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:47 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: £25 to see your GP? |
I give you the opinion from someone from a socialised healthcare country who has paid for their healthcare most of their life: In France you pay €30 to see the GP. €25 is refunded to you by the NHS at a late date, the rest is covered by private healthcare. Destitue people can be see for free through a separate scheme. to be honest i have never had a problem with that. The queues at the doctors are small and you can usually get seen on the day. However, my brother has contracted a serious chronic health problem meaning that he needs xrays and injections every month and therefore has to pay out €200 a month for these. It gets refunded but he is often several hundred pounds out of pocket. So really i'm in two minds about this. |
Author: | pcernie [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:49 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: £25 to see your GP? |
I know a girl with a kidney infection who's been back and forward to her GP recently. She's got two kids and a part-time job, know what I mean? Dumb idea for all the reasons C_W stated. |
Author: | AlunD [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:00 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: £25 to see your GP? |
I don't see how charging people who do show up, above what they already pay in tax's for the privilege, will help stop people not showing up. How would you collect that money? My main gripe is when you turn up for an appointment and a) if first appointment of day the doc is 30 minutes late arriving. this happens regularly. b) you have a later appointment and sit there for an hour waiting as the doctor is running late this happens regularly. Unless its the emergency situation ( which can happen ) I don't see why the patient should have to suffer for the doctors tardiness ( either caused by the doctor or the system appointment durations ). If I was being charged for an appointment then I would be expecting to be able to bill the doctor for my wasted time, without fear of being chucked off the practices list.</rant> |
Author: | mikepgood [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:03 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: £25 to see your GP? |
Free at the point of use: NHS Dentistry and Optical services. Prescriptions. |
Author: | steve74 [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:11 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: £25 to see your GP? |
If they did bring it in, people would probably only go to drop-in centres instead - the end result being they'll get completely swamped. |
Author: | paulzolo [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:41 am ] | |||||||||
Post subject: | Re: £25 to see your GP? | |||||||||
And so on. |
Author: | jonbwfc [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:51 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: £25 to see your GP? |
This would fundamentally change the psychology of the relationship between the doctor and patient. It would go from 'doctor' and 'patient' to 'service provider' and 'customer'. We've seen similar change in Higher Ed since student fees came in. Do you think someone whose paid 30 quid for the privilege is going to be happy sitting in a dingy waiting room on a plastic chair for 30 minutes after the time their appointment was supposed to be? Think again, and that's before they've even spoken to the person they're paying to see. What will happen if this comes in is as follows : Initially, appointment requests will drop massively, completely washing out any possible analysis of change in DNA behaviour. Over time appointment rates will stabilise and come back up somewhat and DNA rates will be seen to be lower. At the same time, user satisfaction in Doctor's surgeries will plummet. People will be getting the same service as before, only now they're paying for it, and people are a lot more forward in complaining about things when they're seeing their money disappear for them than when they're paying through taxes, which the majority never actually see going out of their pay. People are willing to put up with a degree of inconvenience or discomfort when they are getting something 'for free'. They're not when they pay for it. I'm amazed a group as supposedly intelligent as GPs can't figure this out. The net effect will be the next time the GPs need public support over whatever looney change UKGov decides to implement the response will be 'Yeah? Sod off.' This is a perfect case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. |
Author: | cloaked_wolf [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:29 pm ] | |||||||||
Post subject: | Re: £25 to see your GP? | |||||||||
The difficult thing in general practice is sorting things out in ten minutes. Sometimes I can sort things out in a few mins eg mole check, sometimes it can take me 45 mins (eg patient who has presented with depression for the first time). You cannot predict how long each thing will take. Having said that, 90% of the time I run bang on time. It does mean that if you came to talk about three things, I will deal with them in order of importance/significnce and if there's time left, I'll deal with what I can, otherwise come back another day. |
Author: | cloaked_wolf [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:36 pm ] | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Post subject: | Re: £25 to see your GP? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
And that's exactly one of the reasons why I'm against it. If someone still presented with a cold, they would expect a prescription or a sick note or something, despite not actually needing something. This is seen in Oz/NZ (can't recall which).
Depends on what happens and what the doctor-patient dynamic will be like. 10 minutes will not be enough to sort everything out yet they won't want to come back because they'll have to pay again.
TBH more and more people have become more and more demanding. That's part of the reason why General Practice is struggling. There's just not enough doctors, even in places where the pay rate is well above average - practices just can't recruit GPs. Couple that with a large number due to retire in the next couple of years and the problem's only going to get worse. |
Author: | jonbwfc [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:21 pm ] | |||||||||
Post subject: | Re: £25 to see your GP? | |||||||||
What you'll get is people sitting in your office demanding they have all their various issues addressed, because they've paid. The fundamental issue is in the 'power' of the relationship. As it stands, you might say the doctor is the dominant partner - if you were to say to someone 'OK, I'm really busy, can you book another appointment?' then they really don't have much ground to say no, because it's free so the 'cost' to them isn't too much. Once someone pays, they expect to be the dominant partner in any relationship. A certain percentage of them would happily say 'No, I've paid good money, we'll do this now thanks'. And then what can you do? Get security staff in to throw them out? As you say, some of the rest simply wouldn't bother coming back and you'd possibly end up with having to see them as an emergency. Plus you'll probably also get a lot more 'churn' of patients between surgeries in the area - people are used to moving providers for things like utilities and car insurance. If you make surgeries just another service provider, why shouldn't they do the same? Maybe that surgery over the other way will offer better 'value'. When I shifted surgeries last time I moved, there was a significant admin overhead to doing it. People aren't going to accept that if they pay, they way they didn't accept excuses when they wanted to change mobile phone providers and we now have PAC codes and etc. This whole idea has so many negative consequences I honestly can't see why anyone would think it would be a go-er. This is trying to change the engine in a moving vehicle. They might want to have charging as a mechanism, but it's far too far down the line to implement it without opening a massive can filled with an almost infinite amount of worms. |
Author: | AlunD [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm ] | ||||||||||||||||||
Post subject: | Re: £25 to see your GP? | ||||||||||||||||||
I totally agree with you. So the powers at be should come up with an average time slot that works so that most of the time most appointments are on time or pretty close to on time ( exceptions granted ). I've been attending the same surgery for over 20 years and I can only recall a handful of appointments that have been within 10 minutes of on schedule. ![]()
So when can you join the practice I use? ![]() |
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