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Take that, space junk! Australian scientists to zap debris
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Author:  pcernie [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Take that, space junk! Australian scientists to zap debris
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014 ... ith-lasers

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Author:  Amnesia10 [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Take that, space junk! Australian scientists to zap debris
There was a suggestion to send up a sticky ball to basically mop up everything and have atmospheric drag to bring it back to earth.
Author:  jonbwfc [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Take that, space junk! Australian scientists to zap debris
Amnesia10 wrote:
There was a suggestion to send up a sticky ball to basically mop up everything and have atmospheric drag to bring it back to earth.

I can't imagine why a plan that ended with an enormous ball of space debris falling uncontrollably to earth wasn't universally applauded :).

Most of the feasible ones (to me) involve gathering and recycling it in orbit.
Author:  l3v1ck [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Take that, space junk! Australian scientists to zap debris
You think recycling in space is more feasible than letting it burn up on reentry?
Author:  jonbwfc [ Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Take that, space junk! Australian scientists to zap debris
l3v1ck wrote:
You think recycling in space is more feasible than letting it burn up on reentry?

Cost/benefit. Assuming you can control where the lumps come down and whether they do fully incinerate, that's relatively easy but it's also relatively wasteful, because then you keep having to ship more stuff up at vast expense - getting anything at all up the gravity well costs millions and millions of dollars. if you can collect what's up there, get even some of the raw materials back and turn them back into useful stuff, that's going to save you an absolute fortune.

OK, recycling flecks of paint is is always going to be next to impossible but there's a lot of stuff up there that can realistically be grabbed and broken down. And that's got to make more sense than just turning it into pointless fireworks.

IIRC I did see an estimate of how much stuff was up there in financial terms and it's unreal. You can look at it as just a mess that needs to get rid of but I see it as a potential goldmine. Almost literally.
Author:  big_D [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Take that, space junk! Australian scientists to zap debris
And the resources of the Earth are finite. We can't just keep wasting material like we do at the moment.
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Take that, space junk! Australian scientists to zap debris
big_D wrote:
And the resources of the Earth are finite. We can't just keep wasting material like we do at the moment.

I agree. Collecting it in space is and recycling is the best solution. Blasting it with lasers into smaller fragments might not be any better.
Author:  jonbwfc [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Take that, space junk! Australian scientists to zap debris
Amnesia10 wrote:
big_D wrote:
And the resources of the Earth are finite. We can't just keep wasting material like we do at the moment.

I agree. Collecting it in space is and recycling is the best solution. Blasting it with lasers into smaller fragments might not be any better.

As the saying goes, all that does is turn a rifle round into a shotgun round. Doesn't really help at all. However, I don't think they're doing anything that aggressive. All they're doing is effectively using the photons in the laser as a 'force carrier', to literally push back against the line of motion of the debris to slow it down to the point where it can't maintain orbit any more. It's kind of similar to the idea of a solar sail. I did once see a demo where a company used a whopping great laser to 'push' a test object about the size of your fist about 20-30 feet up in the air. It is physically possible.
Author:  Amnesia10 [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Take that, space junk! Australian scientists to zap debris
jonbwfc wrote:
Amnesia10 wrote:
big_D wrote:
And the resources of the Earth are finite. We can't just keep wasting material like we do at the moment.

I agree. Collecting it in space is and recycling is the best solution. Blasting it with lasers into smaller fragments might not be any better.

As the saying goes, all that does is turn a rifle round into a shotgun round. Doesn't really help at all. However, I don't think they're doing anything that aggressive. All they're doing is effectively using the photons in the laser as a 'force carrier', to literally push back against the line of motion of the debris to slow it down to the point where it can't maintain orbit any more. It's kind of similar to the idea of a solar sail. I did once see a demo where a company used a whopping great laser to 'push' a test object about the size of your fist about 20-30 feet up in the air. It is physically possible.

If that was the solution then installing a space based laser to do that to every small item within range could be effective.
Author:  jonbwfc [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Take that, space junk! Australian scientists to zap debris
Amnesia10 wrote:
If that was the solution then installing a space based laser to do that to every small item within range could be effective.

I'd imagine power supply is the factor. No national grid in space :). However you wouldn't need as much power as you've got much less atmosphere int he way.
Author:  davrosG5 [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Take that, space junk! Australian scientists to zap debris
jonbwfc wrote:
Amnesia10 wrote:
If that was the solution then installing a space based laser to do that to every small item within range could be effective.

I'd imagine power supply is the factor. No national grid in space :). However you wouldn't need as much power as you've got much less atmosphere int he way.


Indeed. If only there was a way to convert essentially unlimited solar radiation into a power source. :D
Author:  jonbwfc [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Take that, space junk! Australian scientists to zap debris
davrosG5 wrote:
Indeed. If only there was a way to convert essentially unlimited solar radiation into a power source. :D

What you need is a 500 foot wide magnifying glass.

Well, seriously, you can do it but it's logistically a bit tricky. Solar cells are nice, but they don't actually give you much power each. To build your space based death ray *cough* orbital debris dispersal system, you'd either need a whopping great solar array, or you'd need whopping great capacitors to continually build power into, which you then 'dump' into your laser to get the beam power you need. And whopping great capacitors weigh a lot and you've got to ship them up the gravity well. Or build them in space from materials you've gathered but we're eating our own tail here.

You COULD do it. You could build a solar powered battle station *cough* space junk incinerator. But it would be expensive to start with and you only get a return when you've finished clearing out low orbit and use it for blackmailing the world.
Author:  davrosG5 [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Take that, space junk! Australian scientists to zap debris
Well, it's got to be on the list once the volcano lair is up and running :D
Author:  pcernie [ Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Take that, space junk! Australian scientists to zap debris
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Author:  Amnesia10 [ Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Take that, space junk! Australian scientists to zap debris
jonbwfc wrote:
davrosG5 wrote:
Indeed. If only there was a way to convert essentially unlimited solar radiation into a power source. :D

What you need is a 500 foot wide magnifying glass.

Well, seriously, you can do it but it's logistically a bit tricky. Solar cells are nice, but they don't actually give you much power each. To build your space based death ray *cough* orbital debris dispersal system, you'd either need a whopping great solar array, or you'd need whopping great capacitors to continually build power into, which you then 'dump' into your laser to get the beam power you need. And whopping great capacitors weigh a lot and you've got to ship them up the gravity well. Or build them in space from materials you've gathered but we're eating our own tail here.

You COULD do it. You could build a solar powered battle station *cough* space junk incinerator. But it would be expensive to start with and you only get a return when you've finished clearing out low orbit and use it for blackmailing the world.

You could combine solar cells to charge up capacitors. Also you do not need a lot of power. Just enough to get a small hotspot to emit photons/ions that can create counter thrust on each particle.
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