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| pcernie wrote: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28167556 I find that hard to argue against, but then I don't drive, so... | |
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Totally disagree.
Roads should be funded from income and business taxes because everybody benefits from them.
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| Fuel duty share 'could fix potholes and roads' http://www.x404.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=22257 |
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| Author: | pcernie [ Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Fuel duty share 'could fix potholes and roads' |
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28167556 I find that hard to argue against, but then I don't drive, so... |
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| Author: | rustybucket [ Sat Jul 05, 2014 2:01 pm ] | |||||||||
| Post subject: | Re: Fuel duty share 'could fix potholes and roads' | |||||||||
Totally disagree. Roads should be funded from income and business taxes because everybody benefits from them. |
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| Author: | pcernie [ Sat Jul 05, 2014 2:07 pm ] | ||||||||||||||||||
| Post subject: | Re: Fuel duty share 'could fix potholes and roads' | ||||||||||||||||||
I was thinking more in terms of cause and effect, but I take your point. I was also thinking it would simplify council expenditure and countless other knock-on effects as an end goal, but that's decades away with the usual suspects involved... |
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| Author: | ShockWaffle [ Sat Jul 05, 2014 2:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fuel duty share 'could fix potholes and roads' |
It sets a bad precedent to link a specific income stream to a spending outcome. In the US highways maintenance is funded by petrol taxes, but Congress has kept those taxes static for a couple of decades now, and the highways maintenance fund is bankrupt. Having initially linked the expenditure to the money source, only regular, but shrinking, doses of cash from the General Fund (normal taxes) are keeping the system going at all, but it isn't going well. The same approach, not committing to expenditure without "funding" it with a ring fenced pot of money, is used a lot over there. The results are so often perverse that the principle is not worth importing. |
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| Author: | l3v1ck [ Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fuel duty share 'could fix potholes and roads' |
I've always said more of the money raised from road taxes (inc fuel duty etc) should be spent on the roads. Having said that I recognise that that money is already being spent on other things and there is none to spare.Is it reasonable to say drivers should be watching where they're going and should be avoiding the occasional pot hole? |
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| Author: | jonbwfc [ Sun Jul 06, 2014 9:39 am ] | |||||||||
| Post subject: | Re: Fuel duty share 'could fix potholes and roads' | |||||||||
Come with me into work some day. The only way I could avoid the potholes on some roads is to drive on the pavements. |
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| Author: | Spreadie [ Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:42 pm ] | |||||||||
| Post subject: | Re: Fuel duty share 'could fix potholes and roads' | |||||||||
It's easy to think that way at the moment, during the summer months. However, in the winter, pot holes allow water into the road. You'd be surprised just how fast a road can deteriorate due to freezing. Everyone has seen this kind of thing:  That is reflection cracking of the surface course, caused by damaged sub layers in the road's construction - commonly due to water ingress and freezing. Basically, wherever you see that, the road needs full reconstruction. Once the base and binder courses are damaged, you're beyond the relatively inexpensive methods of repair. Ignoring a pot hole only costs more money later. A lot more money. |
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| Author: | MrStevenRogers [ Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fuel duty share 'could fix potholes and roads' |
allowing the road system infrastructure to decay to the level that it now is a prelude to road tolls they have used the same method against all past nationalised utilities as a prelude to privatisation ... |
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| Author: | Spreadie [ Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:38 pm ] | |||||||||
| Post subject: | Re: Fuel duty share 'could fix potholes and roads' | |||||||||
The UK's roads network has been severely under-funded for the last couple of decades. Even now, when far more money is being invested than any time over the last twenty years (through absolute necessity), we're getting short-changed because of the "lowest bidder wins" PFI schemes - hideously expensive programmes that deliver extremely poor value for money - so much is promised during the bidding stage yet never delivered, just like election manifestos. Ambiguous sensitivities are built into the contract which always allow far too much wriggle room on the part on the winning bidder, resulting in the use of experimental materials and techniques which look great on paper yet frequently fail to live up to design expectations. |
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| Author: | MrStevenRogers [ Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fuel duty share 'could fix potholes and roads' |
red ken of the past GLC had the right idea all private companies that had to dig the roads up in London had to pay for there repair all the private companies then via the GLC did all upgrades and repairs at the same time sharing the cost of road repair/relaying but that was stopped as it was a cost burden to private business ... the road infrastructure should be funded out of general taxation to the tune of no less then 1% of GDP and that should be ring fenced ... |
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| Author: | big_D [ Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fuel duty share 'could fix potholes and roads' |
If it is a tax for using the road, then it should be used to fund road repairs, transport network infrastructure and improving public transport, in that order. If there is any over, then it can be used elsewhere... |
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| Author: | ShockWaffle [ Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fuel duty share 'could fix potholes and roads' |
And cigarette duties should be spent on buying me more snouts, beer duty should be spent on beer, and hospitals should be paid for with a Band-Aid tax? |
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| Author: | cloaked_wolf [ Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:56 am ] | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Post subject: | Re: Fuel duty share 'could fix potholes and roads' | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Ringfencing can lead to problems. Cuts are still made but the money can be claimed to be "ringfenced", and the outcome is still the same. The quality of some roads I've travelled on has been shocking.
I've hit potholes on blind corners where there was no way you could tell. Further, a lot of potholes that I've encountered are too severe to negotiate even at clutch-control speed. I often now swerve to avoid potholes where I can see them. Other drivers do the same. It's not safe. More than that, a poor road surface means braking isn't as good. In the end, the reason for the roads to be repaired and maintained is less for driver comfort but more for road safety.
This is something that is plagueing the NHS. A group of doctors wanted to run the local out-of-hours service but the CCG had to award the contract to a private company because the rules meant you can only give it to the lowest bidder, irrespective of whether they could actually carry out the contract. As a result, the out-of-hours care by these companies can be poor and often run by nurses because they can't recruit GPs.
Completely agree. The other issue I see is filling in multiple potholes rather than redoing the whole road surface. I often see pothole repairs deteriorating within 6-12 months of initial repair.
I thought this was still the case. Either way, I often see one company doing roadworks and repairing it, and then another company comes along and digs a little further down. You end up with a road full of patches/repairs that again are of poor quality.
There's vehicle excise duty, and there's petrol duty. There's no specific "road tax" although we still call it that. The UK road infrastructure needs an overhaul and there must be better materials and methods compared to the 1960s (IIRC thats when most motorways were built). |
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| Author: | paulzolo [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:06 pm ] | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Post subject: | Re: Fuel duty share 'could fix potholes and roads' | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Where I am, the potholes are deep and wide. Most are exposing the concrete below, and where the concrete has been laid in sections, it’s gone deeper still. Other places, there are there rude that work across the road which are deep, long but narrow. Nasty to drive over. If you’re on a bike, they’re all worse. You have a choice - ride your bike over the damage, and endure the jolting, jarring and hope that the wheels don‘t buckle, ride along the middle of the road, putting yourself in the path of oncoming traffic, or riding on the pavement. I reported these problems to the council months ago, but nothing has happened. I think the roads in question really need resurfacing now, rather than just patching. |
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