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Scottish independence: UK leaders pledge parliament powers
http://www.x404.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=22403		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  pcernie [ Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:46 am ]
Post subject:  Scottish independence: UK leaders pledge parliament powers
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28654142

'This is good... Hang on a minute! Clegg's signed it - the lying bastards!'
Author:  Spreadie [ Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Scottish independence: UK leaders pledge parliament powers
I'm hearing that Alistair Darling wiped the floor with Alec Salmond in the TV debate, and Salmond revealed himself as little more than a fear monger.

I haven't seen it (will have to dig it up online), but it bodes well for a no vote. 8-)
Author:  jonbwfc [ Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Scottish independence: UK leaders pledge parliament powers
Spreadie wrote:
I haven't seen it (will have to dig it up online), but it bodes well for a no vote. 8-)

It's apparently on STV's version of iPlayer now, although that went tits up at the time as all the people in the rest of the UK who were interested all tried to use it.

The general press consensus both sides of Hadrian's wall seems to be that while Darling was no great shakes, Salmond made a bit of a hash of it. However polling shows very little variation from before the debate and what data there is shows it didn't so much change anyone's mind as harden the views of people who had already made their mind up.

As things currently stand, polls show a 10% majority against the separation. If that's the result, independence in Scotland is done for a couple of generations and Salmond is done as a politician.
Author:  Spreadie [ Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Scottish independence: UK leaders pledge parliament powers
jonbwfc wrote:
As things currently stand, polls show a 10% majority against the separation. If that's the result, independence in Scotland is done for a couple of generations...

I hope so.
jonbwfc wrote:
...and Salmond is done as a politician.

I REALLY hope so.
Author:  davrosG5 [ Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Scottish independence: UK leaders pledge parliament powers
Spreadie wrote:
jonbwfc wrote:
As things currently stand, polls show a 10% majority against the separation. If that's the result, independence in Scotland is done for a couple of generations...

I hope so.
jonbwfc wrote:
...and Salmond is done as a politician.

I REALLY hope so.


That's the thing though. Personally I suspect that Salmond won't actually be that gutted if there is a No vote. Plus he's harder to kill politically than MRSA. If it turns out as No vote he'll just keep bleeting on about the imposition of stuff from Westminster that, generally speaking, Scotland didn't vote for. As with all politicians his ability to pick and choose the information that suits him is pretty impressive.

What I think he's been aiming for from the start is effectively the Devo-Max option. He was p!ssed off when he wasn't allowed to have it as an option on the ballot but if you look at what's now being said by all the 'No' parties will effectively give Scotland Devo-max (or the bulk of it anyway) if there is a no vote. Devo-max works out quite well from the Nats point of view - they get to set up the infrastructure to run large parts of what's needed for independance at the expense of the enitre UK rather than having to pay for it out of just Scotlands resources.
Author:  hifidelity2 [ Thu Aug 07, 2014 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Scottish independence: UK leaders pledge parliament powers
davrosG5 wrote:
That's the thing though. Personally I suspect that Salmond won't actually be that gutted if there is a No vote. Plus he's harder to kill politically than MRSA. If it turns out as No vote he'll just keep bleeting on about the imposition of stuff from Westminster that, generally speaking, Scotland didn't vote for. As with all politicians his ability to pick and choose the information that suits him is pretty impressive.

What I think he's been aiming for from the start is effectively the Devo-Max option. He was p!ssed off when he wasn't allowed to have it as an option on the ballot but if you look at what's now being said by all the 'No' parties will effectively give Scotland Devo-max (or the bulk of it anyway) if there is a no vote. Devo-max works out quite well from the Nats point of view - they get to set up the infrastructure to run large parts of what's needed for independance at the expense of the enitre UK rather than having to pay for it out of just Scotlands resources.

Not 100% sure if he will get all he hope for

Yes he will get some form on Devo-Max but if I was Westminster esp a conservative PM who didn't have to worry about losing votes (as they have none north of the border) I would with the Tax raising powers scrap the Barnet formula and pay them the same as a norla council gets. If they want to have extra then they can tax their own people as see how many people are willing to vote with thier wallet.

The labour part has found out over many elections that people all love the NHS, Benefits, free milk for under 7 chimney sweeps etc UNTIL they have to pay for it and then in the polling booth they vote for the lower tax party (which was "new" Laour during the Blair years)
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