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Ambulances target times to increase?
http://www.x404.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=23103		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  pcernie [ Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Ambulances target times to increase?
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... lengthened

So, it's really about moving the figures goalposts for when someone inevitably dies needlessly?

'I'll finish Candy Crush here and still have two minutes!'
Author:  jonbwfc [ Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ambulances target times to increase?
pcernie wrote:
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/dec/21/ambulance-target-times-could-be-lengthened
So, it's really about moving the figures goalposts for when someone inevitably dies needlessly?

Seems like it to me. They're not meeting targets for Red 1 cases, so the management want to reclassify a load of stuff as not Red 1 anymore to make meeting the target easier. The same people are still having the same medical emergencies as would have been.

Basically hide the problem rather than fix it.
Author:  MrStevenRogers [ Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ambulances target times to increase?
they need to stop closing A&E depts.
that way the ambulance service would not have to worry about $hit management cover ups within the NHS ...
Author:  jonlumb [ Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ambulances target times to increase?
MrStevenRogers wrote:
they need to stop closing A&E depts.
that way the ambulance service would not have to worry about $hit management cover ups within the NHS ...


It would also be really good if at the next election, people didn't vote for the party that have the most destructive plans for the NHS, like UKIP do.
Author:  cloaked_wolf [ Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ambulances target times to increase?
There are multiple factors at play here:

1. Inappropriate use of emergency services - you often get the public ringing for silly things, or there are social problems. Example in point: we had a drunk patient turn up and pass out. Obviously inebriated. Got them to wake up but they flopped and hit their head. Not normally a problem - just get someone at home to observe. But we couldn't get hold of next of kin and we couldn't leave them there all night. This same person often gets drunk and passes out so passersby end up calling 999.

2. Inappropriate use of A&E - you get lots of people turning up to A&E because either they're not registered with a GP, aren't aware of out-of-hours services, or can't be bothered to wait. So they rock up to A&E and clog up the system. I recall seeing patients in A&E who told me they couldn't get an appointment with their GP, only for me to find one as soon as I rang up the surgery. I also remember seeing a young woman who'd had a sore throat for half a day and decided to wait four hours to be seen by me. The look on her face when I told her it was a sore throat and probably viral with no treatment was priceless. But it was something she should have been able to manage.

3. Crap triaging by 111 - this is the system that was brought in by the govt to replace NHS direct. The problem is that you ring up with say a trivial complaint and the non-clinical call handler will follow a protocol. Being non-clinical means they don't know when to deviate from a protocol. Hence you get a 19-year old ringing up asking about his chest pain (having been hit in the chest by a football) and an ambulance being blue-lighted. IIRC he was given painkillers and sent home.

4. Poor out-of-hours service provision - the Govt thought they could do OOH better than GPs. It's cost more, run less efficiently, and has poorer satisfaction with the public. If it was well run, patients may have gone to OOH. Walk in centres are also often closed as they're only open during the day eg 0800-1830.

This means that there's increased use of A&E and increased use of ambulances. Factor in the fact that ambulances have targets of how many to send in and how many to leave at home (yes some patients are coerced into signing the form to say they don't want to be admitted against paramedic advice).
Author:  MrStevenRogers [ Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ambulances target times to increase?
jonlumb wrote:
MrStevenRogers wrote:
they need to stop closing A&E depts.
that way the ambulance service would not have to worry about $hit management cover ups within the NHS ...


It would also be really good if at the next election, people didn't vote for the party that have the most destructive plans for the NHS, like UKIP do.


must point out that UKIP are not in Govt. just the alleged child abusing Lib/Lab/Cons ...
Author:  jonlumb [ Mon Dec 22, 2014 7:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ambulances target times to increase?
MrStevenRogers wrote:
jonlumb wrote:
MrStevenRogers wrote:
they need to stop closing A&E depts.
that way the ambulance service would not have to worry about $hit management cover ups within the NHS ...


It would also be really good if at the next election, people didn't vote for the party that have the most destructive plans for the NHS, like UKIP do.


must point out that UKIP are not in Govt. just the alleged child abusing Lib/Lab/Cons ...


Swing and a miss, would you like to take another go at not addressing the point?
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