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Ministry of Justice prevents Ched Evans from playing abroad
http://www.x404.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=23150		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  pcernie [ Sat Jan 03, 2015 5:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Ministry of Justice prevents Ched Evans from playing abroad
http://www.theguardian.com/football/201 ... ched-evans

:D
Author:  l3v1ck [ Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ministry of Justice prevents Ched Evans from playing abroad
Why did I read the thread title as Chris Evans?
Author:  AlunD [ Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ministry of Justice prevents Ched Evans from playing abroad
l3v1ck wrote:
Why did I read the thread title as Chris Evans?

That's just being hopeful. :D
Author:  jonbwfc [ Sun Jan 04, 2015 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ministry of Justice prevents Ched Evans from playing abroad
Latest news is Oldham seem to be taking him on.
Author:  pcernie [ Sun Jan 04, 2015 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ministry of Justice prevents Ched Evans from playing abroad
jonbwfc wrote:
Latest news is Oldham seem to be taking him on.


And everything that comes with him presumably. Right or wrong, all everybody will ever see is a rapist on the pitch. Some crimes are just too vile to be forgotten about.
Author:  MrStevenRogers [ Sun Jan 04, 2015 8:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ministry of Justice prevents Ched Evans from playing abroad
pcernie wrote:
jonbwfc wrote:
Latest news is Oldham seem to be taking him on.


And everything that comes with him presumably. Right or wrong, all everybody will ever see is a rapist on the pitch. Some crimes are just too vile to be forgotten about.


+1 to that ...
Author:  hifidelity2 [ Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ministry of Justice prevents Ched Evans from playing abroad
MrStevenRogers wrote:
pcernie wrote:
jonbwfc wrote:
Latest news is Oldham seem to be taking him on.


And everything that comes with him presumably. Right or wrong, all everybody will ever see is a rapist on the pitch. Some crimes are just too vile to be forgotten about.


+1 to that ...

But if you believe in the rehabilitation of offenders then you need to let him play. The alternative is mandated life imprisonment for any rape which would lead to miscarriages of justice
Author:  davrosG5 [ Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ministry of Justice prevents Ched Evans from playing abroad
Rehabilitation is indeed an important aspect of the justice system and the treatment of offenders.

I was, however, under the impression that Mr. Evans has thus far not admited he did anything wrong and in fact appears to be thoroughly unrepentant about the whole thing.
For me, and I suspect a rather large number of other people, that's the stumbling block. While he's served his time he doesn't actually appeared to have learned anything from the experience so he still presents a risk.
Author:  hifidelity2 [ Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ministry of Justice prevents Ched Evans from playing abroad
davrosG5 wrote:
Rehabilitation is indeed an important aspect of the justice system and the treatment of offenders.

I was, however, under the impression that Mr. Evans has thus far not admited he did anything wrong and in fact appears to be thoroughly unrepentant about the whole thing.
For me, and I suspect a rather large number of other people, that's the stumbling block. While he's served his time he doesn't actually appeared to have learned anything from the experience so he still presents a risk.

Well he is appealing the conviction so I guess he cant admit his guilt in any way
Author:  jonbwfc [ Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ministry of Justice prevents Ched Evans from playing abroad
davrosG5 wrote:
For me, and I suspect a rather large number of other people, that's the stumbling block. While he's served his time he doesn't actually appeared to have learned anything from the experience so he still presents a risk.

I can absolutely understand some people might not want a convicted rapist playing for the club they support. No problem with that at all. But the guy has been tried, convicted and served his sentence under law.

The stumbling block that's mentioned is he hasn't shown contrition, but in fact it seems to me that it's because hasn't shown contrition publicly. There's rather a whiff that it's not actually about criminal psychology or rehabilitation, it's about public humiliation. He hasn't come out and figuratively let the baying mob throw rotten fruit at him so they're going to continue to pursue him until he does.

I have no idea if he's shown contrition privately, it's generally the case that parole boards take the attitude of the prisoner into account when letting peopel out on license.

Ched Evans did a terrible thing. Some would say an unforgivable thing and that's understandable. But Oldham Athletic get at most 4000 fans in their ground every week yet 50,000 people sign a petition saying they shouldn't give Evana a job? Frankly, it's nothing to do with most of them. It's to do with the management and staff and fans of the club.

Saying 'I want a say in this man's life until he apologises to me' when you have absolutely nothing to do with the events surrounding him at all beyond reading it in a newspaper? Really?

There's a separate issue with so called Evans 'supporters' (who I suspect he has no idea who they are and are just using him as a bandwagon for their own problems) harassing people involved in the case including the victim, which is ugly and people should be themselves put on trial for. But... is this really the way civilised people are supposed to act?

Jon
Author:  jonlumb [ Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ministry of Justice prevents Ched Evans from playing abroad
hifidelity2 wrote:
MrStevenRogers wrote:
pcernie wrote:
And everything that comes with him presumably. Right or wrong, all everybody will ever see is a rapist on the pitch. Some crimes are just too vile to be forgotten about.


+1 to that ...

But if you believe in the rehabilitation of offenders then you need to let him play. The alternative is mandated life imprisonment for any rape which would lead to miscarriages of justice


Given that he seems to still be in complete denial that he did anything wrong, it's difficult to see how he has been rehabilitated. That does in turn raise the question as to why he is already out on license...
Author:  John_Vella [ Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ministry of Justice prevents Ched Evans from playing abroad
I was under the impression that he is still appealing the case, which suggests that he either believes he is innocent, and was wrongly convicted, or he's a complete numpty.

I can't see anyone actually giving the guy a job until the appeal is finished, one way or the other.
Author:  MrStevenRogers [ Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ministry of Justice prevents Ched Evans from playing abroad
Quote:
Nine people have been prosecuted for naming her. Her anonymity has not been protected, and Evans’s website put up CCTV footage showing the victim walking into the hotel where the offence happened, asking viewers to “judge for yourself”. What does this say to any other woman who wants to bring a rape charge? The fact that Evans will not call off his fans or close down the website financed by his fiancee’s father is appalling. Rape culture depends on the shaming of women – “it was her fault”.


Quote:
rape/forced sex/sex with a woman comatose with drink/a woman unable to consent. Note that in this vile multiple choice, the woman has no choice.


http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... bilitation

he is not after, wants or believes he requires rehabilitation only vindication, it was alright on the night. that’s why ...
Author:  l3v1ck [ Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ministry of Justice prevents Ched Evans from playing abroad
Can't say I agree with banning him from his job for life once he's served his time.
Especially when the 'rape' was actually drunk sex when the woman didn't realise what she was doing until the following morning.
I don't go for the 'I was too drunk to consent even though I invited you back to my house' line. People should be responsible for their actions, including offering to slepp with someone. If you can't handle that, don't drink as much.
To me rape is forcing a sex act on someone against their will at the time. You can't take permission back after the event.
Author:  jonlumb [ Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ministry of Justice prevents Ched Evans from playing abroad
l3v1ck wrote:
Can't say I agree with banning him from his job for life once he's served his time.
Especially when the 'rape' was actually drunk sex when the woman didn't realise what she was doing until the following morning.
I don't go for the 'I was too drunk to consent even though I invited you back to my house' line. People should be responsible for their actions, including offering to slepp with someone. If you can't handle that, don't drink as much.
To me rape is forcing a sex act on someone against their will at the time. You can't take permission back after the event.


If the person in question is that drunk, it's physically impossible for them to consent as they are not of sound mind, ergo it is rape. It should always, always be the responsibility of both parties to make sure of consent, rather than assuming. Lack of resistance does not equal consent. For far too long, people have viewed these areas as somehow acceptable and get into all sorts of deeply unpleasant victim blaming.
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