https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46535739

This should go into the Brexit Britain thread, but this is big enough a story to stand on its own. Whatever happens today, the country and the Tory party will be broken in ways that it’s hard to see how it can recover. It certainly won’t make the next few months any easier on anyone.

While it was obviously going to happen, I'm kind of surprised it's happening now.
If they manage to boot her out now then whoever replaces her will be lumbered with the vain attempt to renegotiate (or possibly decide that no deal will be all roses and unicorns so therefore fine). Either way their premiership is set up to be a miserable failure from the get go. I'd always envisioned the Tory plotters plan to be to let TM create whatever carnage then kick her out in time for the next election with a fresh leader who could dump the full blame for the ensuing mess at TM's feet.
It's usually a mistake to bet on the Tories splitting as catastrophically as it looks like they could because they've always got their eye on staying in ultimate control but this time does seem genuinely different. Even threats that we'll end up with a Corbyn government don't seem to be moderating the infighting at the moment.
Having said that, a Corbyn government, at least on Brexit, seems as deluded as the Tories. The idea that we can retain all the benefits of EU membership while also respecting the referendum result is fanciful at best (although that is basically one of the things the leave campaign promised).

No one can deliver a functional, useful Brexit. It’s a poisoned chalice, and Cameron knew that when he resigned. He ducked a bullet. I feel May got the job as leader not because she wanted it, but because she basically blinked first. Everyone else in the leadership race suddenly decided it might not be a good idea to lead the Tories after all.

However this goes, the Tories are seen as deeply damaged, and the country itself is now in a state of deep crisis.I don’t think Labour, the Lib Dems, or anyone else can successfully renegotiate now. The best option is to pull the plug on the process, citing irrevocable damage to the country as reason. Let the gammons shout “traitor” for a while - they’ll tire of it.

i do wonder when the remain voters in the referendum understand that they lost and are still losing. its not leaving the EU that is the problem. its the remain camp that are clinging on, with a death grip (wishes can be granted), that is the problem. i didn't vote for deal or no deal but i did vote leave. i expect this to escalate. have a nice EU day and well done May ...

I think you'll find that the lying tory b@5tards during the run-up to the referendum was the problem.
That and the fact that the same lying tory scum didn't actually have a plan for leaving the EU at the time they arranged the referendum.

Mark

did you, yourself, after the vote believe we would leave the EU. everyone thought that the referendum was in the bag for remain. least not forget Labour supported and voted for the referendum as well, believing the same that remain could not lose.

well reality hit, remain lost the vote on the biggest, largest, majority turn out in election history that decided to leave the corrupt (no accounts for over 25 years) protection racket, called the EU.

even now the vote would go to leave, why, because now it would be a vote on 'leave the EU to it' not just leave ...

ps. a gammon is a clean board sweep in backgammon. i do hope the ham hocks have a nice day, as they seem to be down to their knuckles ...

There. I fixed that for you.

Mark

She won, but now has to continue on this knowing that speculation about a rift in the Tory party has been made concrete by her own people. About a third of her MPs and Ministers voted against her in a secret ballot. This is of public record - we know this, those May is visiting at the EU today know this. It’s weakened her position both at home and abroad.

You have said here on many occasions that you wanted a hard brexit, and to work only under WTO rules. That’s the No Deal scenario.

By voting leave, you also voted for this utter fiasco. It’s a consequence of the referendum result.

this fiasco has been created by the remain, camp, voters and mp's who fail to except the result of the referendum.
there is no hard or soft brexit, thats made up by the remain voters, the referendum was leave or remain, nothing more nothing less.
we the UK voted leave. on march 29th, the default leave date, the UK leaves the EU. the legal position on that date is WTO rules apply if a deal is not accepted by parliament. thats it end of game.

as of the rest that is happening which does nothing more then create delays, delays which move us closer to leaving under WTO trading. i hope the remain camp keeps up the good work. they have helped us leave the EU on WTO terms with no deal the only prospect.

as of the NI and RoI border. the UK will abide by the GFA, if the EU and the RoI wish a hard border it will be on their side not ours, lets see who wins that one ...

tut tut you are getting [img]emotional[/img].
the enemy of my enemy is my friend ...

Nope, the ememy of your enemy is not your friend. You're just hoping somebody else will do the work for you.

@saspro ... but they already have, they are called remain voters and most thankfully Gina Miller. the remain camp seem to be doing all the necessary work.
again i state, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. or would you prefer 'the friend of my friend is my enemy'...

What I'm getting is honest, which is more than you're doing with your flights of fancy of no-deal being the best deal.

Mark

WTO explanation for Steve

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmtAG4RtAp8