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Government anti-terrorism strategy 'spies' on innocent
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Author:  pcernie [ Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:17 am ]
Post subject:  Government anti-terrorism strategy 'spies' on innocent

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/oct/1 ... -innocents

Quote:
Instances around the country include:

• In the Midlands, funding for a mental health project to help Muslims was linked to information about individuals being passed to the authorities.

• In a college in northern England, a student who attended a meeting about Gaza was reported by one lecturer as a potential extremist. He was found not to be.

• A nine-year-old schoolboy in east London, who was referred to the authorities after allegedly showing signs of extremism – the youngest case known in Britain. He was "deprogrammed" according to a source with knowledge of the case.

• Within the last month, one new youth project in London alleged it was being pressured by the Metropolitan police to provide names and details of Muslim youngsters, as a condition of funding. None of the young Muslims have any known terrorist history.

• In one London borough, those working with youngsters were told to add information to databases they hold to highlight which youths were Muslim. They were also asked to provide information, to be shared with the police, about which streets and areas Muslim youngsters could be found on.

• In Birmingham the programme manager for Prevent is in fact a senior counter- terrorism police officer. Paul Marriott has been seconded to work in the equalities division of Britain's biggest council.

• In Blackburn, at least 80 people were reported to the authorities for showing signs of extremism. They were referred to the Channel project, part of Prevent.

• A youth project manager alleges his refusal to provide intelligence led to the police spreading false rumours and trying to smear him and his organisation.

• One manager of a project in London said : "I think part of the point of the [Prevent] programme is to spy and intelligence gather. I won't do that." In another London borough wardens on council estates were told to inform on people not whom they suspected of crimes, but whom they suspected could be susceptible to radicalisation. One source, who has been involved in Whitehall discussions on counter-terrorism, said: "There is no doubt Prevent is in part about gathering intelligence on people's thoughts and beliefs. No doubt." He added that the authorities feared "they'd be lynched" if they admitted Prevent included spying.


This is a story that'll run and run - with any luck the Guardian will publish the docs in some form :D

Author:  paulzolo [ Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Government anti-terrorism strategy 'spies' on innocent

pcernie wrote:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/oct/16/anti-terrorism-strategy-spies-innocents

Quote:
Instances around the country include:

• In the Midlands, funding for a mental health project to help Muslims was linked to information about individuals being passed to the authorities.


At the risk of appearing to be a Very Bad Person™, it seems that some Muslims are suicidal to the point of wanting to take other people out as they end their sad/depressive/bi-polar/schizophrenic lives. If a mental health project can give these people a better outlook on life, find the best medication and treatment, and save them from harming themselves and others, then I’m all for it. It seems that being a suicidally depressed Muslim is not good for anyone within the blast radius. :lol: :P

Author:  pcernie [ Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Government anti-terrorism strategy 'spies' on innocent

Agreed, but saying 'we can only help if you turn informer' is a bit of a backward step ;)

Author:  Amnesia10 [ Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Government anti-terrorism strategy 'spies' on innocent

pcernie wrote:
Agreed, but saying 'we can only help if you turn informer' is a bit of a backward step ;)

Yes but for those who have no active role that in any such group that is all that people can do. I know a few Muslims and most have the same interests as the rest of us. Making enough money to have a decent life. Though if I were to discover any terrorist acts (exceptionally unlikely), then I would have to inform to stop it getting out of hand.

Author:  pcernie [ Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Government anti-terrorism strategy 'spies' on innocent

Amnesia10 wrote:
pcernie wrote:
Agreed, but saying 'we can only help if you turn informer' is a bit of a backward step ;)

Yes but for those who have no active role that in any such group that is all that people can do. I know a few Muslims and most have the same interests as the rest of us. Making enough money to have a decent life. Though if I were to discover any terrorist acts (exceptionally unlikely), then I would have to inform to stop it getting out of hand.


I'm talking about the withholding of money just to try and create touts though...

Author:  Amnesia10 [ Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Government anti-terrorism strategy 'spies' on innocent

My motives would not be money, but the welfare of the public. The majority of Muslims that I know are Iranian. From my experience at the last few Iranian New year celebrations they are definitely no trouble. They drink alcohol, most never go anywhere near a mosque, are as religious as the average Brit. They sing the Iranian national anthem, the pre revolutionary anthem not the current one. Are as anti the current Iranina regime as Bush was. They are certainly no threat.

To base funding of youth groups on producing names of suspects is counterproductive. All that they will achieve are fictitious names like Muhammed Mouse and his wife M'inni Mouse etc. They will be chasing ghosts. Which is also a waste of money.

Author:  LaptopAcidXperience [ Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Government anti-terrorism strategy 'spies' on innocent

Quote:
In another London borough wardens on council estates were told to inform on people not whom they suspected of crimes, but whom they suspected could be susceptible to radicalisation.


Isn't just about anyone not just muslims likely to be "radicalised" against a government that does stuff like this, it shouldn't be called "Prevent" it should be called "Assist" or "Cause".

Author:  big_D [ Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Government anti-terrorism strategy 'spies' on innocent

It sounds like the Ministry for State Security (Stasi) are alive and well! :shock:

I thought the records in Berlin after the falling of the Wall were bad... :?

If you haven't seen it already, you should check out "the live of others" (Das Leben der Anderen).

Author:  Amnesia10 [ Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Government anti-terrorism strategy 'spies' on innocent

LaptopAcidXperience wrote:
Quote:
In another London borough wardens on council estates were told to inform on people not whom they suspected of crimes, but whom they suspected could be susceptible to radicalisation.


Isn't just about anyone not just muslims likely to be "radicalised" against a government that does stuff like this, it shouldn't be called "Prevent" it should be called "Assist" or "Cause".

Does that count the Countryside Alliance? They need to be stopped! ;)

Author:  LaptopAcidXperience [ Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Government anti-terrorism strategy 'spies' on innocent

Amnesia10 wrote:
LaptopAcidXperience wrote:
Quote:
In another London borough wardens on council estates were told to inform on people not whom they suspected of crimes, but whom they suspected could be susceptible to radicalisation.


Isn't just about anyone not just muslims likely to be "radicalised" against a government that does stuff like this, it shouldn't be called "Prevent" it should be called "Assist" or "Cause".

Does that count the Countryside Alliance? They need to be stopped! ;)



Only if they're proper dog on a rope crusty travellers, in which they case they should be put in re-education camps, shaved and forced to eat their dogs until they can reintegrate back into "normal" society.

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