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Met Office's longer-term forecasts criticised
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Author:  pcernie [ Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Met Office's longer-term forecasts criticised

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8462890.stm

Thoughts?

Maybe a better explanation of their processes and remit may be in order, though you have to wonder when they tell you to expect snowy conditions the next day in your part of the country and you only get light showers at most... Maybe something is lost in translation between the facts and the weather presenters :oops:

Author:  Coref [ Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Met Office's longer-term forecasts criticised

I think that the public's grasp of stats is so low that they can't really grasp the lack of certainty.

Author:  JJW009 [ Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Met Office's longer-term forecasts criticised

I demand accurate long term weather forecasts. I don't believe it's difficult at all, they're just being lazy and stupid. I know nothing about it at all, so I'm perfectly qualified to write critical reviews.

Quote:
"The Met Office is a truly world-class organisation - we are lucky to have it,"

+1

I just hope the rumours about selling it off are bogus :evil:

Coref wrote:
I think that the public's grasp of stats is so low that they can't really grasp the lack of certainty.

That's the truth.

Author:  HeatherKay [ Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Met Office's longer-term forecasts criticised

I have a beef with the BBC's weather forecasters (who are Met Office employees, I believe). The past two or three years have seen a move to style over substance, with little in the way of actual forecasting going on. The BBC's current map system is obscure and full of fancy-schmancy graphic nonsense which tells me nothing about what the weather will be. I much preferred the old fashioned pictograms. You could tell a rain cloud from a snow cloud because it had a little drop under it. Now it's all shades of blue and brown, with white highlights. It's a mess, but you can complain till you're blue in the face and no-one listens...

Leaving that aside, when predictions of a "barbecue summer" and a "warmer winter" turn out to be polar opposites of what actually happens, you have to wonder what the Met Office is actually trying to achieve. The forecasts up to five days are getting so much more accurate now, I wonder why they bother trying to guess what's going to happen six months on.

Author:  pcernie [ Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Met Office's longer-term forecasts criticised

I also couldn't tell by the on-screen graphics recently if it was to rain or snow...

Author:  Coref [ Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Met Office's longer-term forecasts criticised

I couldn't figure out if they meant snow or ice either. The fact we can't even agree on our misinterpretations says it all. :)

Author:  AlunD [ Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Met Office's longer-term forecasts criticised

HeatherKay wrote:
The forecasts up to five days are getting so much more accurate now, I wonder why they bother trying to guess what's going to happen six months on.


Its the long term forecasts that make the money. There is a huge demand for 1 - 6 month forecasts from industry.

Author:  andytw [ Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Met Office's longer-term forecasts criticised

AlunD wrote:
Its the long term forecasts that make the money. There is a huge demand for 1 - 6 month forecasts from industry.



Agreed.

The trouble is that by the Met office's own admission their regional 48 hour advanced forecast is accurate 6 days out of 7.
If you extend this forecast to 14 days then it is below 50% accuracy (i.e. little better than a guess).
As part of my job I am sent a 14 day advanced forecast every Monday and the predicted accuracy for the second week is always low because of this.

Andrew Neil recently asked some similar questions on the BBC as well.

Clicky.

Author:  AlunD [ Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Met Office's longer-term forecasts criticised

andytw wrote:
AlunD wrote:
Its the long term forecasts that make the money. There is a huge demand for 1 - 6 month forecasts from industry.



Agreed.

The trouble is that by the Met office's own admission their regional 48 hour advanced forecast is accurate 6 days out of 7.
If you extend this forecast to 14 days then it is below 50% accuracy (i.e. little better than a guess).
As part of my job I am sent a 14 day advanced forecast every Monday and the predicted accuracy for the second week is always low because of this.

Andrew Neil recently asked some similar questions on the BBC as well.

Clicky.


Not going to disagree with you.

Author:  adidan [ Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Met Office's longer-term forecasts criticised

For 9 out of the past 10 years they've predicted that annual temperatures would be higher than they actually have been.

I find it difficult to rely on forecasts of any type that are based on statistics that are only correct 10% of the time.

Author:  JJW009 [ Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Met Office's longer-term forecasts criticised

adidan wrote:
For 9 out of the past 10 years they've predicted that annual temperatures would be higher than they actually have been.

I find it difficult to rely on forecasts of any type that are based on statistics that are only correct 10% of the time.


Huh? I'm actually quite impressed by the accuracy:

Quote:
This "warming bias" is very small - just 0.05C. And the Met Office points out that the variance between the forecast and the actual temperature is within its own stated margins of error.


So the predictions have been to within the stated margin of error, and to my mind 0.05C really is a small amount. You're hardly going to say:

"I was going out today, but it's only 18.95C. Those damned fools told me it would be 19C, and I was totally relying on it".

Author:  rustybucket [ Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Met Office's longer-term forecasts criticised

JJW009 wrote:
Quote:
This "warming bias" is very small - just 0.05C. And the Met Office points out that the variance between the forecast and the actual temperature is within its own stated margins of error.


So the predictions have been to within the stated margin of error, and to my mind 0.05C really is a small amount. You're hardly going to say:

"I was going out today, but it's only 18.95C. Those damned fools told me it would be 19C, and I was totally relying on it".

Error bounds FTW!

:lol:

Author:  Linux_User [ Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Met Office's longer-term forecasts criticised

"Barbecue Summer" and "Mild Winter". That is all.

Author:  adidan [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Met Office's longer-term forecasts criticised

JJW009 wrote:
Huh? I'm actually quite impressed by the accuracy:

Quote:
This "warming bias" is very small - just 0.05C. And the Met Office points out that the variance between the forecast and the actual temperature is within its own stated margins of error.


So the predictions have been to within the stated margin of error, and to my mind 0.05C really is a small amount. You're hardly going to say:

"I was going out today, but it's only 18.95C. Those damned fools told me it would be 19C, and I was totally relying on it".

I'm sighing right now JJ.

Author:  paulzolo [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Met Office's longer-term forecasts criticised

HeatherKay wrote:
I have a beef with the BBC's weather forecasters (who are Met Office employees, I believe). The past two or three years have seen a move to style over substance,


Well, err, yes.

Image

HeatherKay wrote:
with little in the way of actual forecasting going on. The BBC's current map system is obscure and full of fancy-schmancy graphic nonsense which tells me nothing about what the weather will be. I much preferred the old fashioned pictograms. You could tell a rain cloud from a snow cloud because it had a little drop under it. Now it's all shades of blue and brown, with white highlights. It's a mess, but you can complain till you're blue in the face and no-one listens...


I still find the weather map annoying. If it’s not the swirling around the country, it’s the juddering that the name places seem to develop at times. It is unnecessarily over-engineered.

HeatherKay wrote:
Leaving that aside, when predictions of a "barbecue summer" and a "warmer winter" turn out to be polar opposites of what actually happens, you have to wonder what the Met Office is actually trying to achieve. The forecasts up to five days are getting so much more accurate now, I wonder why they bother trying to guess what's going to happen six months on.


That’e because so far climate models are very unsatisfactory. They give vague ideas about what may happen, but really have the accuracy of a pile of goat’s bones and sheep entrails.

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