This is bloody barmy
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| Sikh schoolchildren should be allowed ceremonial daggers http://www.x404.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=6105 |
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| Author: | Amnesia10 [ Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Sikh schoolchildren should be allowed ceremonial daggers |
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... judge.html I can see this going badly wrong. While a sikh child may not use the dagger that does not mean no one else will. If they are going to take religious tolerance to this extent then all Rastafarian kids will be taking marijuana to school for the exact same reason. |
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| Author: | AlunD [ Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sikh schoolchildren should be allowed ceremonial daggers |
This is bloody barmy
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| Author: | jonbwfc [ Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:48 am ] | |||||||||
| Post subject: | Re: Sikh schoolchildren should be allowed ceremonial daggers | |||||||||
Given that this there is absolutely no right to this in any HR legislation (there is a fundamental right to education but not at any particular institution) and given thousands of children throughout the UK don't get into their first choice schools every year because quite often good schools are heavily over-subscribed, if this is the basis on which his judgement has been made I think we can expect an appeal rather shortly. And I expect thousands of semi-posh families to use this as a basis to sue their local council  . And I also think a senior judge should know an awful lot better than making a statement like this to the public, when anyone with any kind of law training whatsoever would be able to spot the trouble it will cause a mile away.Jon |
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| Author: | belchingmatt [ Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sikh schoolchildren should be allowed ceremonial daggers |
The French would never allow this.
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| Author: | l3v1ck [ Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sikh schoolchildren should be allowed ceremonial daggers |
Religious discrimination!  Someone is allowed to carry a weapon because of their religion. I think not. No school children should be allowed to carry knives. One rule for all! |
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| Author: | HeatherKay [ Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:07 pm ] | |||||||||
| Post subject: | Re: Sikh schoolchildren should be allowed ceremonial daggers | |||||||||
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirpan#United_Kingdom I understand that in many cases the kirpan can be welded or riveted into the sheath so it cannot be withdrawn in anger. I also understand the object is worn beneath clothing so it's not visible. One of the problems we have in our multicultural society is that there can be a good deal of misinformation and misunderstanding about other peoples' cultures and religious practices. I like to learn about these things, to better understand my fellow human beings. I'd like to think most people are like me. I know it's not likely to be true, but I like to think it could be one day. To sum up, I don't have an objection to any symbols of religious devotion being worn. There's no evidence that the kirpan would ever be used as an offensive weapon, that I can see. |
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| Author: | JJW009 [ Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sikh schoolchildren should be allowed ceremonial daggers |
I think any kirpan likely to be carried by a child in this country are no more deadly than a similarly sized crucifix. Less so if you're a vampire, obviously. |
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| Author: | big_D [ Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sikh schoolchildren should be allowed ceremonial daggers |
In the word of Michael Garibaldi, I'll use a magentic grapple and attach this knife to the outside of the hull, if you can retrieve it, without a spacesuit, you can keep it. (Not an exact quote as I don't have the DVD to hand) A school isn't a place for weapons, we have enough violence as it is, just look at the recent spate of killings in schools across the USA and Europe. While I am all for freedom of religious expression in general, carrying weapons isn't acceptable, with the possible exception of religious ceremonies inside a house of worship. If you are not living in your native country, you have to adapt to the new country, where you are living. I know I have had to adjust some of my ways of thinking, although they aren't very extreme differences here. |
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| Author: | jonbwfc [ Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:15 pm ] | ||||||||||||||||||
| Post subject: | Re: Sikh schoolchildren should be allowed ceremonial daggers | ||||||||||||||||||
I don't think the law considers a weapon being concealed as being a mitigating factor. I think much the reverse in fact  .However obviously this is one of those 'letter of the law' cases. The thing that interests me is if the kirpan can be made so it is effectively useless as a weapon, how much of a representation of a weapon is needed to fulfill the religious requirement? Would a plastic one do? Or a photograph of one?
The problem is you have two competing philosophies - on the one hand you have people 's right to practice their religion and on the other hand you have principle (and it is a very valid one) that the law must be applied equally to all. It seems to me that inequality in law is no more desirable than inequality in society. The struggle is essentially church against state and which a person should primarily follow the strictures of. I'm an atheist, so my opinion on this is obvious. Whatever the validity of the case in question, it does unfortunately provide another case for the likes of the BNP to claim that 'ethnic minorities' are given special treatment and that those who they see as not 'english' have no interest in integrating. If the law was to be applied equally to all regardless of religious conviction, they wouldn't have that argument to call on. Jon |
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| Author: | saspro [ Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sikh schoolchildren should be allowed ceremonial daggers |
IIRC at school (where we had a large sikh community) we discovered that the kirpan can infact be shrunk down to charm sized and worn on a necklace. We also had a problem with the Kara as the guys were getting big chunky ones (to use as weapons) instead of the required slim bracelet. |
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| Author: | paulzolo [ Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:44 pm ] | |||||||||
| Post subject: | Re: Sikh schoolchildren should be allowed ceremonial daggers | |||||||||
I believe that this is true. You don’t have to have a sharpened girder with you. |
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| Author: | okenobi [ Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sikh schoolchildren should be allowed ceremonial daggers |
I clearly don't know nearly enough about this. However, any kind of weapon in a school, is bad news. If the object can be adapted to make it safer whilst still fulfilling it's religious purpose - happy days. |
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| Author: | AlunD [ Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:52 pm ] | |||||||||
| Post subject: | Re: Sikh schoolchildren should be allowed ceremonial daggers | |||||||||
+1 |
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| Author: | ChurchCat [ Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sikh schoolchildren should be allowed ceremonial daggers |
Does this mean that Pastafariens can dress as a pirate as on dress like a pirate day as their religion demands? 
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| Author: | HeatherKay [ Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sikh schoolchildren should be allowed ceremonial daggers |
Here's a Sikh explaining about the place of the kirpan in Sikhism, and why he thinks it's not a good idea. Guardian, Hardeep Singh Kohli I think it helps to understand what the religious meaning is all about. |
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